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Sons and Daughters, Baseball and Ballet

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
    First. this "the" problem??? WTH?
    It's a recently popular usage, and drives me crazy, everyone is running around saying variations of this. "The" issue/problem/topic dejure is..........

    In that vein:

    THE most apt quote for this thread is:
    "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

    Comment


    • #32
      I'm not sure about the cross-over between baseball/softball and ballet, other than strength and athleticism, but there is a huge cross-over between ballet and soccer. The year some of my girls went up on point, their leg strength went way up and suddenly they could kick the heck out of the ball.
      Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

      I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
        I'm not sure about the cross-over between baseball/softball and ballet, other than strength and athleticism, but there is a huge cross-over between ballet and soccer. The year some of my girls went up on point, their leg strength went way up and suddenly they could kick the heck out of the ball.
        Well, my daughter can understand instruction in relation to movement, especially with the feet. I don't know for sure if it is the ballet training-- I think it is. Maybe she is just really damn smart instead. My example earlier was the crow hop. I told her once what I wanted to her to do, and she nailed it first time. Easy for her because it is pretty close to a ballet move she does in class. Later at the cages she showed off again with keeping her feet in line at the plate. I can't quite describe it but the boys I have coached haven't picked up on things quite as quickly.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by BamaYankee View Post
          Well, my daughter can understand instruction in relation to movement, especially with the feet. I don't know for sure if it is the ballet training-- I think it is. Maybe she is just really damn smart instead. My example earlier was the crow hop. I told her once what I wanted to her to do, and she nailed it first time. Easy for her because it is pretty close to a ballet move she does in class. Later at the cages she showed off again with keeping her feet in line at the plate. I can't quite describe it but the boys I have coached haven't picked up on things quite as quickly.
          This is the mark of a visual learner and a (really) good athlete; they have a direct connection between their eyes and their bodies.

          People mock me for saying that I told Torres, "See this? Do this," but that's exactly how it worked.

          I never really saw it with my older son, but I've seen it in my younger son; his baseball footwork is very advanced (and seemingly innate) and he can pick up a soccer moves very quickly just by watching clips of good players.
          Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

          I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

          Comment


          • #35
            As the dad of a girl who started playing in kindergarten and is still doing so in eighth grade (14s, tryouts are tomorrow), I would say to go for it if it looks like her skill level will put her in the middle of the pack or better on her team. We have not had to deal with any issues with her male teammates or their parents since she has always been a solid contributor on all the teams she has been on, but I could see it being a problem if her skills put her near the bottom. I will also say that it has probably helped that my daughter started playing in kindergarten so it has always been that she was just one of the kids. Your daughter's situation may be different since she will be starting at a later age. If fall ball in Alabama is like it is here (more developmental/recreational than summer ball) then that is definitely the time to try it to see how it goes. For us it has been a great experience.

            Comment


            • #36
              I love reading stories like this "OnTheBench" and the OP. I don't think guys like Trado realize just what kind of relationship having such a strong bond over something develops with your daughter. I always supported her dancing, always went to her competitions and recitals. However, I had nothing to teach her, all I could do was watch and be proud. With something like this, we can develop an unbreakable bond. Some of it would still be there with softball, but not to the extent it is with baseball. Thanks for posting OTB.

              Comment


              • #37
                Coupla thoughts here:

                First, to Bama, I've helped coach my niece (who plays 10u softball), and agree that the footwork and hip movement of dance really shortcuts the teaching process.

                Reminds of a story of a girl who was one of the few playing in our 9-10 league a few years back; she was very graceful but hadn't played at all before and it took awhile to raise her game, but she was clearly by the middle of her second year one of the better infielders. In the playoffs, the team ran out of pitchers and brought her in to close a tight game. She pitched from the stretch, starting with her hands at her sides and bringing them up with straight elbows until her hands met straight above her head, then she bent her elbows to bring her hands straight down and threw. I'm sure there's a technical ballet term for that movement. After a few pitches, I turned to a body and muttered, "I bet she's had some ballet training". Directly in front of me, a woman who bore a remarkable resemblance to the girl (i.e., obviously her mother) turned to me and in a voice dripping with icicles said, "Actually, she hasn't." Awwwwwkward! She got the first two hitters and finished off the game with a K, and her all-male group of comrades rushed the mound to crush her with congratulations. And I'm sure every one of them -- when faced with attitudes like Tradasaurus' in sports or school or business -- will think back to that moment, or another like it. If we believe - as I do and most folks do - that sports are important because the prepare us for a life where we have to learn teamwork skills for the second most important part of our life (behind family life), isn't it important that we learn how to deal with females as equals? After all, unless you're going to be a monk or a member of Augusta National, you're going to be working with women. And, by the way, she stayed in the league as an above-average player for two more years and, even if she didn't continue on, derived all the benefits of baseball that her male colleagues had and then some, because she'd done it in a milieu dominated by guys.

                Three years ago, Ursa Minor played on a 15u summer team that played a couple of games against a largely inner-city, African-American squad that had a slightly chunky young woman on the team. I noticed in warm-ups that her teammates were civil to her but consciously were testing her by throwing the ball as hard as they could to her, and she got each heat-seeker without fuss or complaint. She was the starting catcher and did well, and then came in to close. She struck out two - including Ursa Minor - to end the game, and as we walked back to the car and talked about the game, I kept my ears open for any sign that he was embarassed to be whiffed "by a girl". When he talked about that at-bat, he lamented his failure to have a good approach to the AB but didn't mention a word about her gender, and it's pretty clear that it didn't factor into his feelings about his disappoingment. I was actually pretty proud of him.

                As far as strong women leading to a higher divorce rate... well, that's the biggest load of crap I've heard in a long time. (And, if it did, I'm guessing it's attributable to women who finally had the courage to walk out on misogynistic and abusive jerks.) I'm sure it was an overbearing wife that caused Arkansas Coach Bobby Petrino to hire and bonk a 25-year old assistant behind his wife's back. And if you're going to pull this cause & effect down to the case of a girl deciding that she wants to play baseball with boys? Pleeeeze....
                sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by clayadams View Post
                  I love reading stories like this "OnTheBench" and the OP. I don't think guys like Trado realize just what kind of relationship having such a strong bond over something develops with your daughter. I always supported her dancing, always went to her competitions and recitals. However, I had nothing to teach her, all I could do was watch and be proud. With something like this, we can develop an unbreakable bond. Some of it would still be there with softball, but not to the extent it is with baseball. Thanks for posting OTB.
                  From all the time my daughter and I spent in the car on weekends traveling to and from travel softball tournaments I was far closer to my daughter than a typical dad. There was very little she wouldn't discuss with me. She called from the hotel Friday night of her first college softball roadtrip. She said when she got on the charter bus she thought of the years of getting in the car with me and all the talks.

                  I heavily recommend if a girl is still a good baseball player by 7th grade and wants to play through high school, she makes the switch to softball. Startng in 7th grade, for the next three years the boys shoot past the girls physically.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Ursa ... Trade is from East Santorum TX. You head east out of Dallas about one hundred years. You'll find it on the far right of the road.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I can easily see a girl coming from dance/ballet, or gymnastics, or skating, or cheer being a natural in most other youth sports. The athletic ability necessary is mind blowing. The willingness to make the personal commitment to working toward perfection is a norm. Girls seem to gravitate to what they are truly passionate about. It'd be very rare to hear a complaint from a coach that a girl involved in these sports wasn't all in. We see it all the time in the most traditional boys' sports.

                      The coaches are tough on the girls. Not mean, but really push in an encouraging way because they know the girls are so devoted. High expectations are common. A lot of us would cry foul about a youth baseball program that demanded so much from a boy. We're talking about taking on a lifestyle. Not to mention girls from these type of backgrounds are used to being center stage. Confidence runs really high here. I don't think it's an "I'm out to prove something" thing.

                      It's just a matter of physically staying on par with the boys which eventually will come to an end. That and the sports I mentioned require a tremendous amount of sacrifice. School, a little time with friends, and basically everything else devoted to perfection. Gets increasingly more difficult to squeeze in another interest requiring them to be present at specified times.
                      There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Some dance styles and gymnastics heavily emphasize core strengthening and elasticity. This type of training would benefit the athletes of many types of sports: baseball/softball, football, volleyball, soccer, etc... regardless of gender.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Megunticook View Post
                          Wow. Aren't we in the 21st Century now?

                          Next thing I'm going to read on this board is that it's offensive that women are allowed to vote, or own property, or choose their husband. I guess they should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
                          You said, I didn't.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I don't think you can overlook a very good point that Ursa was making. Let's admit it, to succeed in the workplace, most women have to deal with an environment that is male dominated. I think a girls deciding to stick with baseball and showing what it takes to succeed could be a strong indicator of someone who is going to go far in life. My own daughter played one year of baseball at the 8yo level where she dominated, but decided the next year that she "didn't want to play with boys." It was somewhat disappointing to me. I had started recruiting to put together an all-girl 9u team. A couple of years later, she really doesn't care much for sports, which kills Mom (a high school All-American softball and basketball player). Her passion is now Irish Dance. If you've ever been to one of those competitions, you'd understand how much I wish she'd stayed with baseball!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by tradosaurus View Post
                              You said, I didn't.
                              Trade's posts should come with the same disclaimer as the backside of the point spread gambling cards ... For entertainment purposes only.
                              Last edited by tg643; 04-08-2012, 11:27 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                My wife operates a very large dance studio with a ballet foundation (Royal Academy of Dance syllabus). I can tell you that the girls there don't practice, they train. The serious ones take probably 10 classes a week, and they are all exceptional athletes. Females are different, yes - but to say they are not at a males level are ridiculous. Females can do amazing things with their bodies (please, keep it clean). Playing baseball is not conventional for women, but I invite everyone to google LSU's Mo Isom - a fantastic womans soccer player who is very capable of being on the Tiger football team. It's not likely to happen, but she is capable and it is a possibility.

                                Anyway, my point is - respect the ladies.
                                www.glovedoctor.net

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