Hidden ball play, bush league?

[CircleChange11]

Simple solution.....

Whenever there's a "meeting on the mound" (couple of players, not the coach coming out), get the umpire's attention and ask for, "Time"....and make sure he grants it (shouldn't be any reason why he won't).

This now takes the "hidden ball trick" away from the defensive team, as the pitcher now has to, "put the ball back into play", by stepping on the rubber and getting the umpire to signal "play".

Once play has resumed, and the pitcher is on the mound without the ball, it's now a "balk".....so you not only prevented the "hidden ball trick", you actually turned it against them if they don't know the rules, weren't paying attention, or weren't coached properly on what to do should that maneuver be employed against them.

I'm putting this one in my pocket. Thanks.

[BamaYankee]

One that does bother me, though is when the middle infielders continually circle R2 trying to get in his way. I'd really like to tell R2 to break for third as soon as he steps in the way and cause a collision, but that seems a little drastic.

This. Played a team last night who's SS was holding the runner at 2nd and dosey-doeing around my runner blocking his vision. I like the break for third thing -- my mention it to my coaching partners.

[tg643]

I never wasted time practicing trick plays. But if one of my runners ever got nailed by the hidden ball trick, I'd be on my player for not being alert, not the opposing team.

[tg643]

In the same vein of bush or not bush, how do we feel about baserunners who try to distract the pitcher by clapping while he is in motion?

I think its stupid and wonder why a runner would want to cause a pitcher to make a bad pitch. Isn't it better that the batter have an opportunity to hit a ball and move him over, rather than say drawing a walk, or worse, getting hit by a pitch?

Makes no sense to me.

The pitcher should be focused and not hear the clapping.

[headstillhitter]

Not necessarily true. If pitcher has ball on mound and he steps off he can fake a throw. I realize you talking about fielder having ball, but cant stop hidden ball with fake throw this way

[tg643]

I would spend hours practing defensing 1st and 3rd before I would spend five minutes on hidden ball.

[BamaYankee]

Deception has always been in baseball. Many thought that it was cheating when Candy Cummings threw the first curveball.

[trschnell]

No debate or discussion needed, using time on a non-skill that isn't used frequently at the highest levels is a waste of everyone's time on the field.

Convert time on Hidden ball tricks into time or teaching variations of pick off moves (timing, daylight, double look, inside move to 2nd, outside move to 2nd, timing to 1st not holding on, etc.), you'll get more honest/earned outs this way, and you're teaching everyone on the field knowledge and skills that matter. I can't believe how many high level teams don't run timing pickoffs, or only teach pitchers the slow inside move (the trick move instead of the speed move), or leave the covering middle infielder standing close to second as the ball passes the plate, yet they will try trick plays while their pitcher/middle infield is playing with absolutely no skill re: keeping a runner close on 2nd. Or how many teams don't know how to pinch an agressive runner at third. We get 1-3 outs per game using these skills, at least the first time someone plays us.

Once a team knows and can execute all high level plays and responsibilities, then you can add bush tactics to satisfy sense of humors or whatever thoughts or feelings or pressures induce someone to use these plays.

[shake-n-bake]

Oddly, I'm more ok with this play than the one in the other thread.

I will say this though, decoy plays that are made impromptu are best. My son got one start at 3B last year in a 13U travel league. There was a play on a runner coming to 3B. The throw was off line and on a hop. My son acted like the ball got by him and turned toward foul ground and started a couple hard steps in that direction. Totally sold it. The coach sent the runner, then realized where the ball was and yelled "BACK!, BACK!, BACK!" Easy tag for out number 3. That coach gave my son the evil eye for about 2 innings before acknowledging it was a pretty cool play.

[CircleChange11]

The pitcher should be focused and not hear the clapping.

And yet another coach will say that they should be aware of everything going on in the environment.

If a player cannot or should not hear the clapping, then how will they hear communication from teammates or coaches?

Like I said, I'm just going to start yelling "Be Perfect!" and then I'm covered as a coach. I told them, literally, what the expectations are.

[CircleChange11]

Oddly, I'm more ok with this play than the one in the other thread.

I will say this though, decoy plays that are made impromptu are best. My son got one start at 3B last year in a 13U travel league. There was a play on a runner coming to 3B. The throw was off line and on a hop. My son acted like the ball got by him and turned toward foul ground and started a couple hard steps in that direction. Totally sold it. The coach sent the runner, then realized where the ball was and yelled "BACK!, BACK!, BACK!" Easy tag for out number 3. That coach gave my son the evil eye for about 2 innings before acknowledging it was a pretty cool play.

To me that's not necessarily a trick play, but a great deke ... like a 2B calling "got it" and waving his arms like a pop up when the runner from 1B is stealing second ... or the 1B/RF acting like the they are chasing an errant throw, when the 1B has it all the time. IMHO, the base coach's main job is simply to yell "On the Bag!" when a player should remain on the bag.

[tg643]

And yet another coach will say that they should be aware of everything going on in the environment.

If a player cannot or should not hear the clapping, then how will they hear communication from teammates or coaches?

Like I said, I'm just going to start yelling "Be Perfect!" and then I'm covered as a coach. I told them, literally, what the expectations are.

Once the pitcher toes the rubber it's about nothing but him and the catcher unless at higher levels where it's the base runner before the catcher. Anything else has to be tuned out.

[mudvnine]

Oddly, I'm more ok with this play than the one in the other thread.

I will say this though, decoy plays that are made impromptu are best. My son got one start at 3B last year in a 13U travel league. There was a play on a runner coming to 3B. The throw was off line and on a hop. My son acted like the ball got by him and turned toward foul ground and started a couple hard steps in that direction. Totally sold it. The coach sent the runner, then realized where the ball was and yelled "BACK!, BACK!, BACK!" Easy tag for out number 3. That coach gave my son the evil eye for about 2 innings before acknowledging it was a pretty cool play.

Oddly, your son took advantage of an "inexperienced" coach and baserunner with a ridiculous play you never see the MLB, and you were "ok" with it....yet a baserunner just keeps running to 2nd after a walk and you call that coach and player "ignorant".

Oh, and now it's a "decoy" play, and not a "trick" play like the "decoy", pickoff play with a runner at second....or the "decoy" runner, continuing to run to 2nd after the walk.

Hmmm, there's a word for that..... welshbikers_scratch.gif

[CircleChange11]

Once the pitcher toes the rubber it's about nothing but him and the catcher unless at higher levels where it's the base runner before the catcher. Anything else has to be tuned out.

I was thinking of things like "step off" and things of that nature. Pitchers also have to be able to hear "squeeze" and adjust at times depending on team defense.

I prefer "pitcher and catcher in a hallway" myself, but there is so much diversity among coaches that no kid could please them all.

[shake-n-bake]

Oddly, your son took advantage of an "inexperienced" coach and baserunner with a ridiculous play you never see the MLB, and you were "ok" with it....yet a baserunner just keeps running to 2nd after a walk and you call that coach and player "ignorant".

Oh, and now it's a "decoy" play, and not a "trick" play like the "decoy", pickoff play with a runner at second....or the "decoy" runner, continuing to run to 2nd after the walk.

Hmmm, there's a word for that..... [ATTACH=CONFIG]107884[/ATTACH]

Said he saw Albert Pujols do it at 1B and had it in his back pocket for awhile waiting to try it. So, that play and all sorts of decoy plays do happen. There's probably some guy that's a back up infielder for the Royals working on one as we speak just waiting for his time, like my son did. That guy on the Royals rounds first on a walk though, with a runner on 3B and he's earned a bus ticket to play for Northwest Arkansas - The Naturals.

He didn't take advantage of an inexperienced coach. He got lucky and read right on their aggressiveness. They bit. He picked the right time to make the play.