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  • Bush league 2

    High school ball. Coach needs to put in his ace pitcher in a key situation for relief in a tie game. Opposing coach points out correctly that the coach of the team in the field neglected to put the pitcher on the line up card as a reserve (potential relief pitcher was not in game). Umpire, per high school rules, does not let coach put in relief pitcher.

    I think this is a no-brainer for many- a rule is a rule. But I think the rule is too punitive. It was an oversight by the coach to not put the kid's name on the line up card (he had about 10 reserves).

    Anyways, what would you do as the opposing coach-point it out to the ump and stop the kid from pitching?
    Major Figure

  • #2
    When you're paid to coach earn your money by doing things correctly.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by omg View Post
      High school ball. Coach needs to put in his ace pitcher in a key situation for relief in a tie game. Opposing coach points out correctly that the coach of the team in the field neglected to put the pitcher on the line up card as a reserve (potential relief pitcher was not in game). Umpire, per high school rules, does not let coach put in relief pitcher.

      I think this is a no-brainer for many- a rule is a rule. But I think the rule is too punitive. It was an oversight by the coach to not put the kid's name on the line up card (he had about 10 reserves).

      Anyways, what would you do as the opposing coach-point it out to the ump and stop the kid from pitching?
      At this level the rules are the rules...
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

      Comment


      • #4
        omg,

        Besides the fact that the rules are the rules, anyone who’s had jack to do with HS baseball knows many rules are often totally ignored or can by agreement of the coaches or permission of various bodies be ignored. Things like the height or slope of the mound have been a joke in some places for as long as HS ball has been played. So thinking along those lines, it is a bit “bush” to call BS on some poor coach who in his haste to fill out a lineup card left someone off, or even put the wrong number down for a player.

        But as someone who has to deal constantly with lineup cards, I can tell you that this isn’t something that rarely happens. I have to point out some mistake our coach has made on the lineup card several times a season, and most of the time we use computer generated lineups!

        Lord knows how bad our opponents are, because its not my job to care if their coach screws something up. If I get a lineup card, I mark the game using the names and numbers I’m given. But, there sometimes are teams like the one we just played this week that cause all kinds of grief. They have 3 sets of uniforms, and several players have to wear different numbers, depending on the uniform they’re wearing.

        So, when you get their roster, there’s no numbers on it! In the 3 games we played this week, there were at least 2 players in each game who had different numbers, and although the wrong name on the lineup card was put with the number, I didn’t care. I marked the book by what was on the lineup card, and if the numbers caused the data to go to the wrong player, its not my problem.

        I know this seems picayune to some folks like yourself who think that in the sprit of good sportsmanship such things can be overlooked, but I’ll tell ya, it drives me nuts, and there’s just no reason for that kind of thing to happen! Our coach actually seems insulted when I point out a mistake on the card, but to tell the truth, I couldn’t care less. In the 6 years I’ve scored for him, he’s never been nailed, but he’s put the hammer down at least once every season, and when he does, it isn’t in a meaningless situation, and the screams from the stands are that he’s ruthless and doesn’t understand the spirit of the game.
        The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

        Comment


        • #5
          That's great that you point out the mistakes on your coach's card. Important and valuable. Try not to lose sight of the fact that the coach is a busy guy who sometimes has to, for example, make sure there are cups in the visiting team's dugout and such. He'd rather be teaching kids how to turn double plays but unfortunately there is way too much tedious stuff that he has to attend to. He appreciates you, maybe not at the moment, but ultimately, as he does all of the other folks who help make the experience better for the kids and who allow him to focus on actual coaching.
          Major Figure

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by omg View Post
            That's great that you point out the mistakes on your coach's card. Important and valuable. Try not to lose sight of the fact that the coach is a busy guy who sometimes has to, for example, make sure there are cups in the visiting team's dugout and such. He'd rather be teaching kids how to turn double plays but unfortunately there is way too much tedious stuff that he has to attend to. He appreciates you, maybe not at the moment, but ultimately, as he does all of the other folks who help make the experience better for the kids and who allow him to focus on actual coaching.
            Personally, I never had a problem with letting a coach slide on this, but once it's brought to the umps attention there is little he can do without the game becoming a candidate for an appeal. One that will ALWAY go in favor of the rules....
            "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
            - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

            Comment


            • #7
              Personally, I never left this up to chance. I made my own lineup cards that were prefilled out with roster. This wasn't a "fancy" lineup card and done on excel. However, scorekeepers and umpires loved my lineup card because it was the appropriate size and there was never a question about the spelling of names. I never understood why other coaches wouldn't do this.

              Per this being "bush?" NOPE. Had I made this mistake, I wouldn't be upset with my opponent. I'd be upset with myself. Listen, you have to have some type of routine or checkoff to make sure you have your roster listed. Otherwise, this will become common place. In this example, the head coach needs to think his system through and take note on how to prevent this from happening again.
              Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

              I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by omg View Post
                That's great that you point out the mistakes on your coach's card. Important and valuable. Try not to lose sight of the fact that the coach is a busy guy who sometimes has to, for example, make sure there are cups in the visiting team's dugout and such. He'd rather be teaching kids how to turn double plays but unfortunately there is way too much tedious stuff that he has to attend to. He appreciates you, maybe not at the moment, but ultimately, as he does all of the other folks who help make the experience better for the kids and who allow him to focus on actual coaching.
                I detect a bit of a dig in that post, as though I’m some ignorant boob with no idea how busy the coach is. Well, I spend the 6 hours or so doing what I do for every game, just to make his life a teeny bit easier. Plus, since I’m always at the field, home or away 2 hours prior to every game for the last 6 years, I think I have some kind of idea just how busy he is on game days.

                But I’m not at all talking about field prep or all the other things he has to do. All I’m asking for is to get a copy of our lineup, and the opposition’s. I can understand not getting those things on the road, but when we’re at home, in our league its mandatory that the home team is the official book, so I don’t think its crazy or expecting too much to get the freakin’ lineup cards at least for those games.

                But even at that, take yesterday’s away game. We’d gotten rained out the day before, and as usual I was there 2 hours before game time, and in fact was the 1st one at the field for either team. As luck would have it, no one called to make sure the umpires were rescheduled, so for a half hour we all sat around, doing little more than chitchatting, and the two coaches were doing that as well, not 20’ from where I was sitting. When we finally snagged an ump and the meeting was going on, I still didn’t have a lineup from EITHER team, even though we have 3 asst coaches sitting in the dugout.

                So what is it I’m being unreasonable about? How busy can a coach be where they can’t hand the two lineup cards to an asst coach or one of the bench players so the scorers can have them while they’re taking infield? I may not be a coach, but I’m not an idiot, and I understand not to bother those guys any more than what I need to in order to put the names in the book. If its asking too much to give the team scorer the lineups, there’s something very wrong.

                I’m sorry if I’m coming off a being a but “testy”, but this isn’t just my problem. Just like coaches get together and talk, so do scorers, and its pretty much universal that getting a lineup card for both teams with plenty of time to get the bookkeeping done is only a dream for scorers. The other big one is getting changes. People think that the umpires are passing all the changes on, and they couldn’t be more wrong if they tried.

                It gets frustrating trying to keep a good book, and it doesn’t take a whole lot, other than just the tiniest bit of cooperation.
                The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Let's not pretend that the coach isn;t making his game lineup during class or during his planning period either. If he's not, and he's scrambling right before game time to get an accurate lineup card filled out, then he has basically planned to have some failures.

                  We all have to admit that coaches don't really take the lineup card thing seriously or put much thought into it (in general), and once in a while it'll bite you in the butt.

                  IMO, this coach went into the game without intending to use his ace as a pitcher that day and left him off the card. Then the game situation occurred when he decided to use him. Coach lists 10 reserves, but wants to pitch the one kid he left off. Lesson learned, coach.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                    Personally, I never left this up to chance. I made my own lineup cards that were prefilled out with roster. This wasn't a "fancy" lineup card and done on excel. However, scorekeepers and umpires loved my lineup card because it was the appropriate size and there was never a question about the spelling of names. I never understood why other coaches wouldn't do this. …
                    Back in the “day”, before all the technology, I can understand there being problems in this area. But not with what’s available today. If I wasn’t brought up to not treat people in a position of authority with disrespect in front of the people they’re in charge of, there are a few coaches I’d take over my knee and spank for being so stupid! Even at the HS level I get lineup cards with only 1st names and nicknames on them, cards without uniform numbers, cards without all the subs listed, and all sort of other problems. Its really a crying shame.

                    But what are probably the worst one. Are the ones the coach fills out in the longhand scrawl of someone in a big hurry, and look a lot like a Dr’s prescription. Then the scorer does his best to get the names right, and ends up getting irate calls from parents for misspelling their kid’s name in the paper.
                    The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
                      IMO, this coach went into the game without intending to use his ace as a pitcher that day and left him off the card. Then the game situation occurred when he decided to use him. Coach lists 10 reserves, but wants to pitch the one kid he left off. Lesson learned, coach.
                      Yes, that's what I thought happened too but the guy said (I'm told) he just forgot.
                      Major Figure

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                        I detect a bit of a dig in that post, as though I’m some ignorant boob with no idea how busy the coach is.
                        No dig intended. I don't think you are a boob. But you may be paranoid.
                        Major Figure

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Can I add an old lineup card example here? If so, I had this printed out on "card stock."

                          Blanklineup2005.xls

                          I don't know if this will work until I hit submit. If this does work, coaches are welcomed to take this format and change the names to make this work for you. BTW. I have 22 names on this card. This includes both varsity starters, varsity players and the top JV players who dressed for varsity whenever they did not have a JV contest.
                          Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

                          I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                            Can I add an old lineup card example here? If so, I had this printed out on "card stock."

                            [ATTACH]107929[/ATTACH]

                            I don't know if this will work until I hit submit. If this does work, coaches are welcomed to take this format and change the names to make this work for you. BTW. I have 22 names on this card. This includes both varsity starters, varsity players and the top JV players who dressed for varsity whenever they did not have a JV contest.
                            I don't know. There might be some stupid high school rule that you can't put guys on the line up card if they are not dressed and in the dugout. And it wouldn't be close to being the dumbest rule in the book.
                            Major Figure

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by omg View Post
                              I don't know. There might be some stupid high school rule that you can't put guys on the line up card if they are not dressed and in the dugout. And it wouldn't be close to being the dumbest rule in the book.
                              I don't feel it's stupid at all.. In what situation would you feel it's ok at the HS level to add someone NOT on the line up card or roster? While we are giving this a great deal of discussion, it seldom happens. Most coaches at this level know the ramifications and do not make this mistake.
                              "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                              - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                              Comment

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