Bush league 2

[Cannonball]

OMG, I think the difference is that the guys are on the lineup card. In your scenerio, the player is not on the lineup card at the beginning of the game. In the area I coach in, my lineup card would be accepted by all and every coach would have a problem with some coach trying to add a player not listed. I think that SK and you demonstrate that there is not a standard throughout the country. I can only respond by what is typical in my area.

[Jake Patterson]

Once that happens, they are no longer eligible to play on the lower level teams.

We used to be able to move them up and down as long as they are not seniors... Not certain if that changed.

[scorekeeper]

OMG, sure you can do this. It is a common occurance at games in our area for players to come over from the JV game and be used for pinch runners etc. It is a common occurance in our area for a coach to send down to the JV game to get a player for various needs. In this way, you don't have some kid with potential rot on the varsity bench when they could be playing in the JV contest. If there is a rule, then please point it out.

It definitely happens here too, but not on a very wide basis, at least not for all games. We have a “rule” that says players can move freely to and from the V , until they play in a V game. Once that happens, they are no longer eligible to play on the lower level teams. So what coach’s typically do is allow lower level players to play against weak teams or in tournaments where there’s no league opponents and they need extra arms, and the rule stops at the end of the regular season so coaches can pull up as many lower level players as they like to get them the experience.

[Jake Patterson]

Jake,
The impression I get is that CB does exactly that. He turns in a lineup card with guys listed who may not be in uniform and in the dugout that day.

I would be suprised if this is the case. What I suspect is more likely is that he has his standard line-up card and makes additions and subtractions based on who he has available for a particular game.... I could be wrong.

[omg]

I don't feel it's stupid at all.. In what situation would you feel it's ok at the HS level to add someone NOT on the line up card or roster? While we are giving this a great deal of discussion, it seldom happens. Most coaches at this level know the ramifications and do not make this mistake.

Jake,

The impression I get is that CB does exactly that. He turns in a lineup card with guys listed who may not be in uniform and in the dugout that day.

CB,

I know of no rule that says you can't list guys on the line up if they are not physically present. If there were such a rule, I would consider it trivial just as I consider the rule I originally began the thread with as trivial.

[Cannonball]

OMG, sure you can do this. It is a common occurance at games in our area for players to come over from the JV game and be used for pinch runners etc. It is a common occurance in our area for a coach to send down to the JV game to get a player for various needs. In this way, you don't have some kid with potential rot on the varsity bench when they could be playing in the JV contest. If there is a rule, then please point it out.

[Jake Patterson]

I don't know. There might be some stupid high school rule that you can't put guys on the line up card if they are not dressed and in the dugout. And it wouldn't be close to being the dumbest rule in the book.

I don't feel it's stupid at all.. In what situation would you feel it's ok at the HS level to add someone NOT on the line up card or roster? While we are giving this a great deal of discussion, it seldom happens. Most coaches at this level know the ramifications and do not make this mistake.

[omg]

Can I add an old lineup card example here? If so, I had this printed out on "card stock."

[ATTACH]107929[/ATTACH]

I don't know if this will work until I hit submit. If this does work, coaches are welcomed to take this format and change the names to make this work for you. BTW. I have 22 names on this card. This includes both varsity starters, varsity players and the top JV players who dressed for varsity whenever they did not have a JV contest.

I don't know. There might be some stupid high school rule that you can't put guys on the line up card if they are not dressed and in the dugout. And it wouldn't be close to being the dumbest rule in the book.

[Cannonball]

Can I add an old lineup card example here? If so, I had this printed out on "card stock."

Blanklineup2005.xls

I don't know if this will work until I hit submit. If this does work, coaches are welcomed to take this format and change the names to make this work for you. BTW. I have 22 names on this card. This includes both varsity starters, varsity players and the top JV players who dressed for varsity whenever they did not have a JV contest.

[omg]

I detect a bit of a dig in that post, as though I’m some ignorant boob with no idea how busy the coach is.

No dig intended. I don't think you are a boob. But you may be paranoid.

[omg]

IMO, this coach went into the game without intending to use his ace as a pitcher that day and left him off the card. Then the game situation occurred when he decided to use him. Coach lists 10 reserves, but wants to pitch the one kid he left off. Lesson learned, coach.

Yes, that's what I thought happened too but the guy said (I'm told) he just forgot.

[scorekeeper]

Personally, I never left this up to chance. I made my own lineup cards that were prefilled out with roster. This wasn't a "fancy" lineup card and done on excel. However, scorekeepers and umpires loved my lineup card because it was the appropriate size and there was never a question about the spelling of names. I never understood why other coaches wouldn't do this. …

Back in the “day”, before all the technology, I can understand there being problems in this area. But not with what’s available today. If I wasn’t brought up to not treat people in a position of authority with disrespect in front of the people they’re in charge of, there are a few coaches I’d take over my knee and spank for being so stupid! Even at the HS level I get lineup cards with only 1st names and nicknames on them, cards without uniform numbers, cards without all the subs listed, and all sort of other problems. Its really a crying shame.

But what are probably the worst one. Are the ones the coach fills out in the longhand scrawl of someone in a big hurry, and look a lot like a Dr’s prescription. Then the scorer does his best to get the names right, and ends up getting irate calls from parents for misspelling their kid’s name in the paper.

[CircleChange11]

Let's not pretend that the coach isn;t making his game lineup during class or during his planning period either. If he's not, and he's scrambling right before game time to get an accurate lineup card filled out, then he has basically planned to have some failures.

We all have to admit that coaches don't really take the lineup card thing seriously or put much thought into it (in general), and once in a while it'll bite you in the butt.

IMO, this coach went into the game without intending to use his ace as a pitcher that day and left him off the card. Then the game situation occurred when he decided to use him. Coach lists 10 reserves, but wants to pitch the one kid he left off. Lesson learned, coach.

[scorekeeper]

That's great that you point out the mistakes on your coach's card. Important and valuable. Try not to lose sight of the fact that the coach is a busy guy who sometimes has to, for example, make sure there are cups in the visiting team's dugout and such. He'd rather be teaching kids how to turn double plays but unfortunately there is way too much tedious stuff that he has to attend to. He appreciates you, maybe not at the moment, but ultimately, as he does all of the other folks who help make the experience better for the kids and who allow him to focus on actual coaching.

I detect a bit of a dig in that post, as though I’m some ignorant boob with no idea how busy the coach is. Well, I spend the 6 hours or so doing what I do for every game, just to make his life a teeny bit easier. Plus, since I’m always at the field, home or away 2 hours prior to every game for the last 6 years, I think I have some kind of idea just how busy he is on game days.

But I’m not at all talking about field prep or all the other things he has to do. All I’m asking for is to get a copy of our lineup, and the opposition’s. I can understand not getting those things on the road, but when we’re at home, in our league its mandatory that the home team is the official book, so I don’t think its crazy or expecting too much to get the freakin’ lineup cards at least for those games.

But even at that, take yesterday’s away game. We’d gotten rained out the day before, and as usual I was there 2 hours before game time, and in fact was the 1st one at the field for either team. As luck would have it, no one called to make sure the umpires were rescheduled, so for a half hour we all sat around, doing little more than chitchatting, and the two coaches were doing that as well, not 20’ from where I was sitting. When we finally snagged an ump and the meeting was going on, I still didn’t have a lineup from EITHER team, even though we have 3 asst coaches sitting in the dugout.

So what is it I’m being unreasonable about? How busy can a coach be where they can’t hand the two lineup cards to an asst coach or one of the bench players so the scorers can have them while they’re taking infield? I may not be a coach, but I’m not an idiot, and I understand not to bother those guys any more than what I need to in order to put the names in the book. If its asking too much to give the team scorer the lineups, there’s something very wrong.

I’m sorry if I’m coming off a being a but “testy”, but this isn’t just my problem. Just like coaches get together and talk, so do scorers, and its pretty much universal that getting a lineup card for both teams with plenty of time to get the bookkeeping done is only a dream for scorers. The other big one is getting changes. People think that the umpires are passing all the changes on, and they couldn’t be more wrong if they tried.

It gets frustrating trying to keep a good book, and it doesn’t take a whole lot, other than just the tiniest bit of cooperation.

[Cannonball]

Personally, I never left this up to chance. I made my own lineup cards that were prefilled out with roster. This wasn't a "fancy" lineup card and done on excel. However, scorekeepers and umpires loved my lineup card because it was the appropriate size and there was never a question about the spelling of names. I never understood why other coaches wouldn't do this.

Per this being "bush?" NOPE. Had I made this mistake, I wouldn't be upset with my opponent. I'd be upset with myself. Listen, you have to have some type of routine or checkoff to make sure you have your roster listed. Otherwise, this will become common place. In this example, the head coach needs to think his system through and take note on how to prevent this from happening again.