Be honest - Have you had a sore arm?

[real green]

Must of us played ball through atleast High School.

How many of you had a sore arm, elbow, or shoulder?

At some point throughout the season I had a sore arm, elbow, or shoulder. It always seemed to work itself out over time. I still deal with a sore arm playing catch with my son. Isn't it expected? Does anyone go through a season without some sort of arm discomfort? I wonder what the ortho would have told me if I ever went?

What level of damage is throwing doing? Our body is pretty amazing and does a great job of healing itself. Are we over concerned about a sore arm? Is it just a period our body is going through to adapt to the new work load? Like a blister on the hand.

[Chris O'Leary]

Our body is pretty amazing and does a great job of healing itself.

Not if it's never given a chance to heal due to an excessive number of games or too many months of games.

[bbrages]

I've had the sore muscles from being an out-of-shape old (35!) guy trying to do too much. I don't think that's the typical "sore arm" that we worry about.

[jbolt_2000]

Must of us played ball through atleast High School.

How many of you had a sore arm, elbow, or shoulder?

At some point throughout the season I had a sore arm, elbow, or shoulder. It always seemed to work itself out over time. I still deal with a sore arm playing catch with my son. Isn't it expected? Does anyone go through a season without some sort of arm discomfort? I wonder what the ortho would have told me if I ever went?

What level of damage is throwing doing? Our body is pretty amazing and does a great job of healing itself. Are we over concerned about a sore arm? Is it just a period our body is going through to adapt to the new work load? Like a blister on the hand.

My senior year in high school I pitched two games weeks apart. I pitched complete games, both the best games I had ever pitched. One was a one-hitter shutout and the other was a shutout (can't remember the number of hits). One the way home for each game my arm was so dead, I couldn't even lift a pencil. There was tingling around the inside of my elbow. The tingling subsided within a day or so and the weakness went away after about 2-3 days.

Never had any other problems outside of occasional soreness or tiredness.
Now I've been pitching BP for my teams for several years now and last year was the first time I got a sharp pain in my shoulder. I believe it is a tendon that goes from my shoulder to my bicep and hurts when I throw or move my arm in sort of a chicken wing motion. This pain started at the end of last year and lasted for several months. Went away and came back at the beginning of this year. It comes and goes with varying severity. I have not seen the doctor for it, but probably should.

[CircleChange11]

This is actually a 2 or 3 part question.

1. What is your baseball background?How much did you throw as a kid?
2. Did you ever have a sore arm during the season?
3. How much did you throw during that season?

For me, [1] I threw ALL the time as a kid. I spend my summer afternoons either at the diamonds trying to blow fastballs by everyone (using a lawnchair as a catcher) or throwing baseballs against the brick building next door. Hundreds of pitches a day, easily.

I had a sore arm one time in college. I remember it vividly. Fely like an icepick in my elbow. A rusty %$#*&^ icepick.

I generally threw a bunch early in the season before my inning started getting cut for missing too many classes. I never understood why college put more emphasis on class attendance than test performance, but that's a battle I lost and regret fighting. So, the sore arm occurred near the end of the year when I was not used to throwing. But, with regular throwing, a sore arm was not something I had to worry about. whether it is conditioning, genetics, mechanics, etc I don't know.

I'm often asked if I think that the LL pitch counts are too "light" (conservative), and it's often asked in a tone like "Those pitch counts are too low aren't they?" and I don;t think they are. But, if there were a guy that could/would use his own personal history as a basis for a non-supported opinion, it could be me. I threw non-stop. In college I threw bullpen sessions daily, and then if a buddy wanted extra BP, I'd stay and throw to him (well, up until 5 minutes before the cafeteria was closing, then I was eating). I also was not really a big fan of icing, but more "active rest". I have iced a couple of times with the bag on the elbow, but the bucket of ice is not for me.

Most guys get sore arms. Many guys try to pitch through it, some with better results than others. At the college level, no one backs down from anything ... especially in front of teammates.

It bothers me when coaches ask a 14U kid that's throws 100 or more pitches "How's your arm feel?" They simply do not realize that almost no one's arm hurts DURING the game. The next day is often a VERY different story. This is why I don't mind rigid, even conservative, pitch counts at a young age. The ramifications from under pitching a youth pitcher are far less severe than for over-pitching them.

[jbolt_2000]

[QUOTE=CircleChange11;2007388]This is actually a 2 or 3 part question.

1. What is your baseball background?How much did you throw as a kid?

I threw all the time (pitching and otherwise). Played sandlot ball with friends whenever we could. When we couldn't, we played Home Run Derby in the culd-a-sac with a wiffle bat and a rolled up sock wrapped in duct tape (so no windows broke). I was a pitcher since LL Minors up through high school. was with the JUCO team for a little bit, but had to quit due to knee injuries and a full class schedule along with working part time.

2. Did you ever have a sore arm during the season?

The only ones I can remember are the two instances in high school. I can't recall it ever hurting in LL or Pony's.

3. How much did you throw during that season?

In high school, when I had the sore arm after pitching - Often, but not as much as I would have liked.

[Jake Patterson]

Must of us played ball through atleast High School.

How many of you had a sore arm, elbow, or shoulder?

At some point throughout the season I had a sore arm, elbow, or shoulder. It always seemed to work itself out over time. I still deal with a sore arm playing catch with my son. Isn't it expected? Does anyone go through a season without some sort of arm discomfort? I wonder what the ortho would have told me if I ever went?

What level of damage is throwing doing? Our body is pretty amazing and does a great job of healing itself. Are we over concerned about a sore arm? Is it just a period our body is going through to adapt to the new work load? Like a blister on the hand.

As a coach in my 40's (A number of years ago) I could barely throw batting practice because of years of throwing the wrong way... I started investigating throwing mechanics and found Doc Marshall. I read all his material and went to FL to visit him. ... Putting aside the discussion whether or not he can produce a pro level pitcher with his style... he taught me was there was a way in which to throw without damaging your arm. From there I spent some time with a coach from CO who also started with Marshall and then developed a better way to mainstream a different way. Long story short - we spent some time and he had me throwing pain free for the first time in about 20 years... I coached into my 50's.

Chris O'Leary has also taken the similar journey..

[songtitle]

My adult shoulder pain has actually helped me to teach my son how to pitch with less stress on his arm. As we try out different 'experts' techniques and tips, if I can throw it without pain, it's probably OK.

[tg643]

1. What is your baseball background?How much did you throw as a kid?
2. Did you ever have a sore arm during the season?
3. How much did you throw during that season?

1) I played LL through college ball.
2) Growing up in cold weather I often had stiffness in high school.
3) I started ten and relieved maybe four of eighteen games.

The big difference now is the lack of pickup ball and abundance of travel ball. I threw (not pitched) and threw and threw as a kid. We threw baseballs, whiffle balls, tennis balls, rocks, anything, etc.. But when we were tired we packed it in for the day. Kids playing four travel games in a day have to suck it up and play. Many kids today throw too little and pitch too much.

I'll compare then with now using my experience:

LL: The first organized ball was LL at nine. I made majors. Mostly 12's and a few 11's did all the pitching. I pitched a few innings at eleven. I started once a week at twelve.

BR/Jr High: I made the league at 13. 14's and 15's did all the pitching. I didn't pitch an inning at 13. I was a once a week starter at 14 and 15. I was a once a week starter in 8th and 9th grade in junior high. So I started once a week from April to August including all-stars.

Legion/HS: As a high school soph on varsity there was no way I was going to pitch over juniors and seniors. I didn't pitch an inning for either team. As a junior and senior in high school I was a once a week pitcher. My senior year I closed a few games I didn't start. In Legion I started as needed. We were loaded with pitching. I didn't want to be a college pitcher (pitched in relief in college for two years).

Now compare my experience with travel kids who start pitching at 8U and pitch and pitch and pitch every year, every weekend. A kid entering 8th grade probably has more wear and tear on his arm than I had when I finished high school.

As an adult I tore my rotor showing off the arm when my wife convinced me to play softball to fit into the new community when we moved. I could still throw through the pain until my son was a high school soph. Now I can't throw across the infield. I do long toss with my son with a bucket of balls. He throws. I retrieve with another bucket.

[Mur5]

My experiance was about the same as the OP. Every year I had a bit of arm pain but it seemed to work its self out. I now still have occasional arm pain after a lot of throwing at practice. I was never a pitcher, but was a catcher from the time I turned 7.

[Bulldog19]

I played baseball through high school. Mainly a catcher.

I can remember one day my freshman year of high school having a sore arm. We played 5 games in four days. Wasn't enough to stop me from playing. I had probably 3-4 days my senior year with a sore arm. Enough that I actually did not throw for a day or so but nothing further.

I threw a baseball all the time growing up. Long tossed most days during the season in junior high and high school. Long tossed 250 feet or more...

In college I threw one night without more than about 5 minutes of playing catch. Threw the ball over 300 feet. Was sore for a couple days after that (duh).

Now I have some shoulder pain every so often, but I think it's likely due to weight lifting and poor posture because it's not just my throwing shoulder that's bothersome.

I would not be surprised if there is some labrum fraying in my throwing shoulder for sure. Most throwers do have some damage and in fact there is some belief that the labral fraying is needed to be able to throw successfully..

[CircleChange11]

[B]The big difference now is the lack of pickup ball and abundance of travel ball.

I agree.

For next year, I think we're going to avoid travel tournaments as much as possible and focus on wednesday single games and saturday double-headers. The way the tourneys go they just seem ripe for pitcher overuse/abuse. They do have a 6 IP limit, but at our age an IP is often 20 pitches (or a rough average), so IMO that's too many pitches for this age group. Not only that but kids that start on Saturday, close on Sunday, and do everything from catch and shortstop in between.

The plan is to have a 2-3 guys that are "Wednesday guys" and 4-5 guys that are the "Saturday guys", and put them are regular throwing/bullpen sessions in between.

A couple tournaments will be included for the experience and something to "peak for" (so to speak) where 6-9 pitchers are prepared to handle the aspects of the tournament. In other words, it won't just be 4 guys pitching on both days.

[JJA]

[B].

The big difference now is the lack of pickup ball and abundance of travel ball. I threw (not pitched) and threw and threw as a kid. We threw baseballs, whiffle balls, tennis balls, rocks, anything, etc.. But when we were tired we packed it in for the day. Kids playing four travel games in a day have to suck it up and play. Many kids today throw too little and pitch too much.

Yep, that's my strong belief as well. Too much pitching and not enough throwing = way too many injured young arms.

[headstillhitter]

Sore arm, absolutely. Greatest advice i ever got was from Randy Mazey at time pitcing coach at Univ. of TN. He said if a player threw say 80 pitches in game he needed 80 hrs. of rest before he threw competitively again. That is the tricky thing with pitching. Need to work daily at it, but can't throw off of mound daily. Can throw flat ground which puts less stress on arm and can do mechanical drills daily. Often tougher in youth league and even high school because your pitchers generally are your middle infielders/pos. players requiring more throws in games and practice. Coach Mazey take on it was if you bring player back before rest period (ie. 30 pitches=30 hrs.) that they will be ok, but will feel the results the next time out. Throwing is a breaking down process of the muscles etc. Also, as a player gets to say age 13+ they need some type of arm/shoulder maintenance program with light weight or bands. This type of program can be found by searching Jobes shoulder exercises.

[DClutch]

I'm 18 and I throw a lot more than people say I should, but I never really have too much arm pain. I don't work out my arm or anything like high school players do, I just throw. I've thrown 120 pitches last summer and 100 a few other times without losing much strength in my arm. According to some people in these days, that's suicide, but I don't believe it. I just ice a little bit after throwing and I should be good to pitch in another 2-3 days. I have been playing catch for about a month now, and pitched off flat ground twice. The second time was yesterday and I threw 86 pitches. More than I wanted to but my arm felt good and I wanted to work on mechanics. I expected to be sore today, but went out and played at the park and felt fine.

I don't know if I'm just blessed with a durable arm, or if the pitchers are babied today, but I believe in throwing. The more you throw, the stronger you get. You can't get stronger if your coach just lets you throw 80 pitches a game like most high schools do.