Juggling Pitchers and Catchers

[The Flush]

Ideally you would never have a player pitch and catch in the same game. Due to an injury to our primary catcher, we are going have some games where we might need a kid to do both. We really only have 5 pitchers and 4 of those are also catchers, one of them is out for 2 weeks with a broken arm. So for the next 2 weeks we only have 4 pitchers, 3 of which are our only catchers. We will not have any substitues available. We tried, but could not find a catcher who does not pitch (maybe we need open auditions on Sunday?). The primary catcher would have been the 4th pitcher while the pitcher who does not catch is the least reliable pitcher and is not agile enough to catch, and had a toenail removed at the beginning of practice so he really could not even try catching then. Our 10U rec league limits pitchers to 3 innings per game instead of a pitch count. We are in a stretch where we play games every other day for a week, so we are trying to limit our pitchers to only 2 innings per game. Through our first 2 games, in which we had 2 days off between games, the #1 pitcher pitched 5 innings, the #2 4 innings, and the #3 2 innings and all 3 pitched well and we won both games. What is the best way to juggle the pitchers and catchers in this situation? My thought for these next few games is to have the #2 catcher/#3 pitcher start off pitching and go 2 innings if possible, while the #2 pitcher starts at catcher. After 2 innings the starting pitcher will catch the rest of the game with the #1 pitcher pitching the 3-4 innings with the starting catcher/#2 pitcher resting his legs and arm at 1B. We could then try the #2 or #4 pitcher in the 5th and have the other one available if necessary. If we need another pitcher, then we are probably getting run ruled anyway. Any advice would be appreciated, but probably won't be implemented until after the next game which starts in a couple hours.

[scorekeeper]

I’m not sure I get what the problem is. You play 18 innings a week in a 10YO rec league. I’m guessing you have at least 12 players on the team eligible to pitch. Rather than looking for more catchers, just allow more kids to pitch. Along with that, every game throw one of the “non-catchers” back there for an inning every game. That’ll save a half a game over the week.

[The Flush]

There are 11 players on the team, one of which is hurt, so we are down to 10. There are only 2 10 YO who are not already pitchers, and we have already tried working with them as pitchers and catchers and they haven't grasped it yet. The rest are 9 YO who are in their first year of kid pitch and they don't throw well at all right now. As you said, we can put any of the other players in as pitcher, but we will likely walk every batter faced if we do that. I don't think there is much learning for either team in that situation. It will be easier to put another player in as catcher, but then there will be twice as many passed balls. It would be easier to live with more passed balls than more walks. There really is no practice time after the games start because the fields are always in use. However we are going to try to squeeze in some time on Sunday to try to find another pitcher and or catcher.

[scorekeeper]

There are 11 players on the team, one of which is hurt, so we are down to 10. There are only 2 10 YO who are not already pitchers, and we have already tried working with them as pitchers and catchers and they haven't grasped it yet. The rest are 9 YO who are in their first year of kid pitch and they don't throw well at all right now. As you said, we can put any of the other players in as pitcher, but we will likely walk every batter faced if we do that. I don't think there is much learning for either team in that situation. It will be easier to put another player in as catcher, but then there will be twice as many passed balls. It would be easier to live with more passed balls than more walks. There really is no practice time after the games start because the fields are always in use. However we are going to try to squeeze in some time on Sunday to try to find another pitcher and or catcher.

OK, now I have a better idea about the situation. I’m gonna ramble a bit here, but only to let my thoughts get on the page. Don’t take anything personally!

You obviously don’t have enough players on the team for the schedule you have, but chances are that’s not your fault. Since I’m sure it’s a league wide problem, what do all the other coaches do? It would seem wise to play a Mon-Tue-Sat schedule. That way all of the pitchers/catchers would get at least 3 days rest, and some would get 4. That would make things a lot more flexible for that 3rd game.

Forget how old they are or whether they’re experienced or not. They’re only gonna get better by doing, so give them the chance to do. Have a talk with the parents and ask them to please keep the noise down as well as hollering out either advice or praise when the inexperienced kids are out there. The kids have enough to worry about.

When the kids warm up before a practice or a game, do you monitor their throwing, and do you make sure they’re doing it correctly?

Don’t worry about wild pitches, passed balls, or walks, but keep close track of them. They’re gonna happen a lot at that age, even to the very best, but making mistakes when learning a physical task is part of the deal. That’s how the kids learn to make adjustments, and it takes a lot of trial and error. The time to get concerned is if there’s no improvement, and by improvement I don’t mean Billy goes from 10 walks in a game to none in 2 weeks. If his strike percentage is 30 to begin with and every week goes up just 1 percent, that’s a mighty big improvement over a season, and a huge improvement over a few years, and it gives them something to work toward.

You don’t need access to a baseball field to practice pitching or catching. The biggest thing is to make it quality time, even if its just in a driveway or empty parking lot. The easiest way to do that is to keep whatever practice time you have, limited to just a few kids so there’s no standing around.

Well its been a while since I’ve done that. Like I said earlier, those are just random thoughts meant to get you thinking rather than to just solve your problem. As I look back over them, I think the best thing to do would be to somehow rearrange you schedule to try to get some time between the 1st 2 games and the 3rd.

Good luck!!!!

[tg643]

Never have a kid catch after pitching. You don't want him coolng down from making hard throws then having to unleash the hard throw. Don't expect kids to pitch after catching and have their legs. In a LL all-star game my son pitched the 7th after catching six. He struck out three and walked three. He had his arm. His legs were half gone.

[songtitle]

[The Flush]

We have a 5 team league, we makes scheduling a little difficult sometimes. We will play each team 3 times for a total of 12 games. We don't schedule any games Memorial Day weekend (Friday through Monday) and usually Saturdays are reserved for make up games. They are trying to complete the season by the end of the first week of June, after which there is a tournament. It would be better if the league would take an extra week for the season so the games could be spread out a bit. Anyway, the scheduling eases a little after Monday (our 4th game in 8 days). We get 2 days off and then 7 days off. At least we do not have any games on consecutive days.

Right or wrong, today we started the #2 pitcher/#3 catcher with the #2 catcher/#3 pitcher behind the plate for the first 2 innings and then they swapped for the next 2 innings. And wouldn't you know it, it went extra innings, so the #1 pitcher pitched the last 3 to the #2 catcher/#3 pitcher who started behind the plate and the #2pitcher/#3 catcher played 2B. The #1 pitcher pitched well and did not throw many pitches, but we were prepared to use the #4 pitcher if #1 showed any fatigue and if it had gone another extra inning, we would be required to use the #4th pitcher. We were lucky to pull out the win 8-7 in 7 innings and are now 3-0. The question is at what cost and how will the arms feel on Monday with only one day rest. We really need to get #4 on the mound for a few innings no matter what.

Our league is a semi-competitive rec league, so a lot of teams only use 2 or 3 pitchers. We probably have more ready to go than anyone. Today our opponents used one pitcher for 2.1 innings, a second for 2.2 innings, and their only remaining pitcher for 2 innings. And they had to play a 6 inning game last night.

[Stampede]

How do you come back from a broken arm in 2 weeks?

[DerekD]

Pick one game a week where you completely mix things up. This would allow you to use some kids for some innings that you normally wouldn't use. This would allow your better pitchers to go longer in the other games.

[The Flush]

How do you come back from a broken arm in 2 weeks?

His dad said it was a buckle fracture, which although I have never heard of it means it apparently is not broken all the way through. The doctor told him 2 weeks

[The Flush]

I think the 3 games in 5 days (4 in 8) showed up last night. We were trying to balance the workload by starting the #3 pitcher and giving the #1 and #2 the night off. Unfortunately, #3 has also pitched in the last 3 games and is our youngest, smallest pitcher. He did not pitch nearly as well as he had been and the defense definitely did not help out, which made him throw even more. The good news is the #4 pitcher did well, which gave him and the coaches a lot more confidence in him. Unfortunately, the defense also let #4 down as well. #1 came in to close and threw 20 pitches and has now had 6 consecutive scoreless innings. We lost 14-12, but only got to play 5 innings because of darkness. We were facing the best hitting team we have faced so far. At least we get 2 days off before the next game and #2 did not pitch in the last game at all. I would like to see us start #2, use #4 in the middle, and let #1 close if necessary in our next game. #3 should then catch the whole game and not pitch at all. Our injured catcher goes back to the doctor Wednesday, but we are not counting on having him back on Thursday. Even if he is cleared to play, we won't let him catch that first game back. Then we get a whole week off before the next game.

[AdamInNY]

How much are these guys pitching? With that many games you get by with 4 pitchers? I'm in a similar situation with my 9-12 minors team except I only have 1 good pitcher, 1 pitcher that can either walk 3 out of 4 batters or get through 3 innings in 50 pitches, and after that it goes down hill. I'm working on developing pitching, but that's easier said than done.

Basically I need to pick my spots and just accept there are going to be ugly games.

For example on Sunday we started what would be our #2. We got down 6-0 with one out in the second. Brought in another kid he gets 1 out then gives up 3 runs all on walks..

Bring in our best pitcher who hasn't pitched in about 7 days.. He goes 2.1 innings (through the end of the 5th) on 32 pitches. We come back, it's now 9-8 (we can hit, we're like a beer league softball team)top 6.

Now here's the problem in the bottom of the 6th I have the bottom of my order coming up, I also have a game on Tuesday (today). If my #1 pitcher throws anymore I will have no one to go to today. League doesn't have pitch limits, but I do. Just to complicate it 50% rain for our next game . Anyway I took out ourpitcher. Took 3 kids to get through the 6th and we lost 19-9.

Anyway, before I started rambling, I think my point was; you seem to need to try out more kids pitching.

[The Flush]

All of our pitchers can throw strikes at least 50% of the time and the best ones even more. Until last night, we had not walked many batters at all. Our top 2 pitchers are usually good for 50 pitches through 3 innings (league max per game), if they get 2 days rest. On 1 day rest, we try to limit them to 2 innings/20-30 pitches. The next 2 pitchers we limit to 2 innings per game, which is usually 30 pitches for them. Hopefully when our injured player returns, we can spread the work around even more. Yes, we need to try more pitchers, but I am not sure any of the others can throw 46 feet, much less find the plate.

[The Flush]

Here are some rough stats on our pitchers. They are rough in that the HC did not give me the actual balls and strikes, but only the walks, strikeouts, and hit batsmen. I tried to extrapolate the rest. Our pitchers are not fireballers, but in our rec league, the key is to avoid walks more than anything, which we have been pretty good at. I am suprised at the low number of walks we have had. But because we throw more strikes, we get hit a little more than some other teams, particularly #3 in our last game. Without a doubt, we need to develop more pitchers and catchers, but that is easier said than done, particularly with what we have to work with. The ones who do pitch, are the ones who play a lot at home. The ones who don't pitch, probably only see baseballs at practices, games, and on TV.

Pitcher		         1	2	3	4	Team
Games Total		4	4	4	4	4
Games Pitched		4	3	3	1	4
Innings		         9	6	6	2	23
Pitches		         149	129	121	46	445
Balls		         12	37	30	21	100
Strikes		         78	47	45	7	177
2 Strike Fouls		59	45	46	18	168
Stikeouts		         20	14	8	1	43
Walks		         3	9	7	5	24
Hit Batsmen		0	1	2	1	4
Hits & Errors		13	3	14	3	33
Put Outs		         5	2	7	1	15
Total Runs		5	7	13	6	31
Innings/Game 		2.25	2.00	2.00	2.00	5.75
Pitches/Game 		37.3	43.0	40.3	46.0	111.25
Runs/Game 		1.3	2.3	4.3	6.0	7.75
Walks/Game 		0.8	3.0	2.3	5.0	6.00
Hits & Errors/Game 	3.3	1.0	4.7	3.0	8.25
Pitches/Inning		16.6	21.5	20.2	23.0	19.35
Runs/Inning		0.6	1.2	2.2	3.0	1.35
Walks/Inning		0.3	1.5	1.2	2.5	1.04
Hits&Errors/Inning		1.4	0.5	2.3	1.5	1.43

[scorekeeper]

Here are some rough stats on our pitchers. They are rough in that the HC did not give me the actual balls and strikes, but only the walks, strikeouts, and hit batsmen. I tried to extrapolate the rest. Our pitchers are not fireballers, but in our rec league, the key is to avoid walks more than anything, which we have been pretty good at. I am suprised at the low number of walks we have had. But because we throw more strikes, we get hit a little more than some other teams, particularly #3 in our last game. Without a doubt, we need to develop more pitchers and catchers, but that is easier said than done, particularly with what we have to work with. The ones who do pitch, are the ones who play a lot at home. The ones who don't pitch, probably only see baseballs at practices, games, and on TV. …

Love to see those numbers!!!!!!

I don’t know how y’all are collating, storing, and presenting that data, but I’m guessing a spreadsheet. It really doesn’t matter how its stored, but how the things like Innings/Game are computed. If it’s a SS, there’s prolly a field that says something like: B4/B1 and it gives you Innings per Game. That’s a great place to start, but I suggest you do a couple other things that give a bit more precision to the result.

I like to use batters to do that, so you’d get a result of batters per game. The reason for it is, you could conceivably have 12 batters in an inning, but it wouldn’t show anywhere. Then to make things even more precise, use pitches. You already do pitches per inning, but not pitches per run, per batter, per hit, or per anything else.

I’m not trying to say those things are life and death issues, and if you’re doing everything by hand, I’d say forget it. But if its just a matter of entering another formula 1 time and from then on its calculated with no more effort, go for it.