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    MY 11 YEAR OLD PITCHED LAST NIGHT AND THREW 85 PITCHES. DURING THE GAME HE STARTED TO FEEL A PAIN IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACK BUT CONTINUED TO PITCH. I CHECKED HIM AFTER THE GAME AND HE SAID THE PAIN WAS IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACH JUST BELOW THE WASTE. HE WASN'T SURE IF HE BANGED HIS BACK ON SOMETHING OR IF IT WAS BECAUSE OF PITCHING. tHE PAIN SEEMS TO BE CLOSE TO THE BONE...ALMOST LIKE A BONE BRUSE. ANY ADVISE ON TREATMENT.

  • #2
    Originally posted by NITTANY LION FAN View Post
    MY 11 YEAR OLD PITCHED LAST NIGHT AND THREW 85 PITCHES. DURING THE GAME HE STARTED TO FEEL A PAIN IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACK BUT CONTINUED TO PITCH. I CHECKED HIM AFTER THE GAME AND HE SAID THE PAIN WAS IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACH JUST BELOW THE WASTE. HE WASN'T SURE IF HE BANGED HIS BACK ON SOMETHING OR IF IT WAS BECAUSE OF PITCHING. tHE PAIN SEEMS TO BE CLOSE TO THE BONE...ALMOST LIKE A BONE BRUSE. ANY ADVISE ON TREATMENT.
    Why is he allowed to throw 85 pitches in a game? Hope its not too serious but as a parent I would have a talk with the coach, and if you are the coach need to evaluate whether or not its that important to throw an 11 year old 85 pitches in a game. I would not do it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rest. Sometimes heat helps, sometimes it makes it worse. Sometimes cold helps, sometimes it makes it worse.

      See a doctor.

      Possible causes:
      Simply a strain of his muscles.
      His spine is out of alignment causing a pinched nerve.
      He got hit on the back.

      Proper stretching and exercise may help to avoid future issues.

      In my opinion 85 pitches is too many for an 11 year old. Depending on the kid, I start paying closer attention around 30 to 40 pitches. What his posture like? Has his delivery changed? 60 would typically be my max for 10-11 year old.

      Comment


      • #4
        The reason you don't want an 11 yr old throwing more than, say, 70 pitches is that they are not mature enough to stop when they feel pain.

        You said your son began to feel pain but pitched threw it. At what pitch count did he feel pain?

        Maybe it was 30 or maybe 70.

        Of course there are other variables such as being overweight, out of shape, malnourished, etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          To coin an old vaudeville line ...

          Patient: Doc, when I do this it hurts.

          Doc: Then don't do it.

          First, the worst place to come for medical help is a baseball board. It's like stopping on a corner with five people and asking directions. First the HUGE DISCLAIMER: I'm not a doctor. I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express for years.

          Your son's back needs rest. He should take Chidren's Tylenol or an equivilant. He shouldn't play until the pain goes away. If the pain doesn't go away then go see a sports ortho specialist. A pediatrician will tell you to keep him off the field for six weeks, take a children's pain killer and return in six weeks for another appointment.

          He's only eleven. While playing is life and death to him, he shouldn't be playing until he feels better. He'll probably be able to play in the field and hit before he can pitch.

          Comment


          • #6
            My son has had 2 different aches/pains this season. We have alternated ice/heat for a few days. Totally shut him down on both occasions for a week. This 2nd one he was not dicipating so I took him to my massage therapist which has proven to be what he needed.

            DISCLAIMER: I'm not a doctor. I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express for years.
            Last edited by Coach C; 05-16-2012, 11:54 AM. Reason: edit/add

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NITTANY LION FAN View Post
              MY 11 YEAR OLD PITCHED LAST NIGHT AND THREW 85 PITCHES. DURING THE GAME HE STARTED TO FEEL A PAIN IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACK BUT CONTINUED TO PITCH. I CHECKED HIM AFTER THE GAME AND HE SAID THE PAIN WAS IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACH JUST BELOW THE WASTE. HE WASN'T SURE IF HE BANGED HIS BACK ON SOMETHING OR IF IT WAS BECAUSE OF PITCHING. tHE PAIN SEEMS TO BE CLOSE TO THE BONE...ALMOST LIKE A BONE BRUSE. ANY ADVISE ON TREATMENT.
              I would have him checked out.

              My son (12) had similar pain while pitching. We got it checked out (MRI, CT scan) - it turned out to be a pars stress fracture of the lower spine. The pain that he felt was not directly on the spine however, but radiated out toward the side of his lower back.

              Our sports doctor said that this is a very common injury to adolescent pitchers, as the combination of pitching and less dense, growing bones is the perfect recipe for this.

              We had to shut him down immediately, at the cost of this season going down the tubes - he was the top pitcher on the team, and one of the top two in the league. He also lead the rest of the team in RBI's by more than 2x when he stopped playing. But to me, this was a small price to pay, as continual playing could have led to a worse fracture and maybe spondilyosis (sp?).

              He has just started physical therapy and will be able to resume baseball activities in about a month. Total time off - 3 months.

              Good luck with your situation.
              Tony

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NITTANY LION FAN View Post
                MY 11 YEAR OLD PITCHED LAST NIGHT AND THREW 85 PITCHES. DURING THE GAME HE STARTED TO FEEL A PAIN IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACK BUT CONTINUED TO PITCH. I CHECKED HIM AFTER THE GAME AND HE SAID THE PAIN WAS IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACH JUST BELOW THE WASTE. HE WASN'T SURE IF HE BANGED HIS BACK ON SOMETHING OR IF IT WAS BECAUSE OF PITCHING. tHE PAIN SEEMS TO BE CLOSE TO THE BONE...ALMOST LIKE A BONE BRUSE. ANY ADVISE ON TREATMENT.
                Have a doctor check him for a stress fracture.
                Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NITTANY LION FAN View Post
                  MY 11 YEAR OLD PITCHED LAST NIGHT AND THREW 85 PITCHES. DURING THE GAME HE STARTED TO FEEL A PAIN IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACK BUT CONTINUED TO PITCH. I CHECKED HIM AFTER THE GAME AND HE SAID THE PAIN WAS IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACH JUST BELOW THE WASTE. HE WASN'T SURE IF HE BANGED HIS BACK ON SOMETHING OR IF IT WAS BECAUSE OF PITCHING. tHE PAIN SEEMS TO BE CLOSE TO THE BONE...ALMOST LIKE A BONE BRUSE. ANY ADVISE ON TREATMENT.
                  If it persists - See a doctor.

                  My son had back bruising that accompanied another injury. The other injury was misdiagnosed initially. We went with R,I,C,E and physical therapy then he returned to playing. Finally, we brought him to an orthopedist and he got him fixed up.
                  There are two kinds of losers.....Those that don't do what they are told, and those that do only what they are told.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    it turned out to be a pars stress fracture of the lower spine. The pain that he felt was not directly on the spine however, but radiated out toward the side of his lower back.
                    The OP should have his son checked for this. Pars is essentially the spine's version of a growth plate. This can 'fracture' or pull away from the bone.

                    It's very difficult to spot without an MRI. They may try therapy first to see if the pain goes away. If it doesn't, get an MRI.

                    / not a doctor
                    Last edited by songtitle; 05-18-2012, 11:41 AM.
                    efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nittany lion fan,

                      “MY 11 YEAR OLD”
                      Your chronologically aged 11 yo also has a biological age! What is it? Is he delayed , equated or advanced?
                      Pitch count recommendations that do not include this information are completely bogus

                      “PITCHED LAST NIGHT AND THREW 85 PITCHES. DURING THE GAME”
                      This is the recipe for disaster. Why would you as his protective father let this happen? You are the boss not the coach!

                      “HE STARTED TO FEEL A PAIN IN THE LOWER PART OF HIS BACK”
                      This is a typical traditional pitching motion injury that is preventable with corrective mechanical application. What happens is when he releases the ball from his upright position he then pulls down and across his body by recovering his torso weight by bending his back to full range of motion with his back side leg up in the air unnecessarily.

                      . “ANY ADVISE ON TREATMENT.”
                      Fix this destructive mechanic by having him stride shorter and stay taller when recovering. This will allow him to actually learn how to use rotation during his drive mechanic and be ready defensively finishing in the classic drop step position eliminating other pathologies also.

                      After his Dr's release!
                      Have him lay on his back and reach his left leg up and over the right leg and touch the ground on the other side, then lift the left leg back to where it was with bent knees. Now repeat with the right leg up and over the left leg and touch the ground on the opposite side then back into position. Have him do 3 reps the 1st day then 5 reps the 2nd day then 7 reps the 3rd day then 9 reps the 4th day then maintain for a month.

                      You older farts out there can do this lower back exercise with low weight then higher Kettle bells. It is the best exercise for strengthening your lumbar area.

                      Standballdad,

                      “Why is he allowed to throw 85 pitches in a game?”
                      Because this is the recommendation to LL of America from the psuedo scientific organization ASMI who compiled anecdotal information by asking non expert high level coaches for their recommendation on pitch counts for youth pitchers and then passed off the information as a scientific study that pulled the wool over every bodies eyes like they do on most of their so called pier reviewed studies. Not only do they have this grossly wrong but they do not understand why mechanical pathologies occur that destroy pitchers at all levels yearly.
                      Last edited by Dirtberry; 05-20-2012, 07:35 PM.
                      Primum non nocere

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you Dr. Dirtberry!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dirtberry View Post


                          Because this is the recommendation to LL of America from the psuedo scientific organization ASMI who compiled anecdotal information by asking non expert high level coaches for their recommendation on pitch counts for youth pitchers and then passed off the information as a scientific study that pulled the wool over every bodies eyes like they do on most of their so called pier reviewed studies. Not only do they have this grossly wrong but they do not understand why mechanical pathologies occur that destroy pitchers at all levels yearly.
                          The chutzpah of the Marshall culties is unbelievable. The "pseudo scientific organization" was founded and run by the foremost sports orthopedic surgeon in the world, Dr Andrews. On the other side we have Mike Marshall whose techniques over thirty years never got one player to the majors. MLB thinks Marshall is a whack job. Marshall came up with a manner to pitch that while it may reduce injury it doesn't optimize ability. The reason Marshall pitchers don't injure their arms may be they don't last long in baseball. Marshall's pitching camp went out of business.

                          Disclaimer on Dirtberry: He worships Marshall. Dirtberry injured his arm in the minors. He trained with Marshall. He still didn't make it back. Even Indy team didn't want him. I respect Dirtberry made it to the minors. But his worship of Mike Marshall is similar to those who worshipped Jim Jones and David Koresh.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Maybe Hale Bopp will return.
                            efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              TG643,
                              “The chutzpah of the Marshall culties is unbelievable”
                              Believe it, it exists. So how would you suggest the OP help alleviate his young sons mechanical mess. Should he continue in the same way? Should 11 yo’s be having lower back pain?

                              “The "pseudo scientific organization" was founded and run by the foremost sports orthopedic surgeon in the world, Dr Andrews.”
                              Yet he now puts mechanics ahead of pitch counts as the cause of throwing pathologies unlike the actual runner of ASMI Dr.Fleisig. I wonder how Fleisig is going to dance around that one?
                              Dr.Andrews has no time to attend or run anything at ASMI, he is to busy carving on ASMI mechanics recipients. Get it right or zip it!
                              “On the other side we have Mike Marshall whose techniques over thirty years never got one player to the majors”
                              Yet there have been some including himself who still holds many records and the first Cy Young given to a reliever. His information was not even put out until 2000 and only worked with previously injured pitchers or velocity wannahavs at his research facility. Get it right or zip it!

                              “MLB thinks Marshall is a whack job”
                              This is why they continue to destroy their pitchers with this same thread problem and many more. Got that one right.

                              “Marshall came up with a manner to pitch that while it may reduce injury it doesn't optimize ability”
                              Tell that to Kershaw, Bauer and Lincecum who use the same top half mechanics! Tell that to the many high level pitchers and coaches who are currently going over to these tenets more and more as the years go by. Get it right or zip it!

                              “The reason Marshall pitchers don't injure their arms may be they don't last long in baseball.”
                              Hey you got another one right. Not having a bar to jump over has it’s limitations remember most of the management of baseball thinks Dr.Marshall is a “whack job”.

                              “Marshall's pitching camp went out of business”
                              Marshall’s camp was never in business, get it right or zip it!

                              ”Disclaimer on Dirtberry”
                              False dis-claimers on people as with most of the rest of your information is what leads to the continuation of mal-mechanics in youth pitchers that can be put then in part on your shoulders, “Do no harm” and if you can’t get it right then zip it!

                              “He worships Marshall”
                              He follows sound kinesiological, physiological and motor skill information no matter who brings it. Get it right or zip it.
                              “Dirtberry injured his arm in the minors”
                              Dirtberry never played pro ball because he could not pitch above 85 MPH even though he was 6’5” and 220 lbs in College. Get it right or zip it.

                              “He trained with Marshall”
                              he is 58 yo and never trained with Dr.Marshall but was certified by him. Get it right or zip it.
                              “He still didn't make it back”
                              He will always make it back to give sound mechanical advice to caring parents and curious players and coaches. Get it right or zip it!
                              “Even Indy team didn't want him”
                              Indy team shmindy team, what the hell are you talking about? Get it right or zip it

                              “I respect Dirtberry made it to the minors”
                              You respect nothing as seen in most of your posts and exacerbate bad mechanical practices by them. Get it right or zip it.

                              “But his worship of Mike Marshall is similar to those who worshipped Jim Jones and David Koresh.”
                              Same old TG with nothing real or new to say.
                              Lets see you were 2 for 15 here, maybe you should stick to what ever it is you do well.
                              Last edited by Dirtberry; 05-20-2012, 02:39 PM.
                              Primum non nocere

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