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  • Scorekeeping Question

    Hi All,

    Hope this is the correct forum for this. I have a question on how to score a situation. Here is the situation:

    Runner on 1st, no outs
    Batter hits a "swinging bunt".
    The catcher fields the ball and fires to first but the batter is safe.
    The first baseman fires to third base where the runner who was on first base is trying to make it to third base. He is tagged out at third.

    How is this scored? is it 2-3-5 or is it just 3-5 since the runner at first was safe?

    Hope I was clear in my explanation and thanks in advance for any help

    Thanks
    -Tom
    My blog - http://sandlotwisdom.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Originally posted by tag0519 View Post
    Hi All,

    Hope this is the correct forum for this. I have a question on how to score a situation. Here is the situation:

    Runner on 1st, no outs
    Batter hits a "swinging bunt".
    The catcher fields the ball and fires to first but the batter is safe.
    The first baseman fires to third base where the runner who was on first base is trying to make it to third base. He is tagged out at third.

    How is this scored? is it 2-3-5 or is it just 3-5 since the runner at first was safe?

    Hope I was clear in my explanation and thanks in advance for any help

    Thanks
    -Tom
    For the batter, it is scored a single if he beats the throw out and there was no error fielding the ball.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cps View Post
      For the batter, it is scored a single if he beats the throw out and there was no error fielding the ball.
      Right but how is the out at third scored? 2-3-5 or 3-5?
      My blog - http://sandlotwisdom.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        I would say a 2-3-5 FC. The more important question is, why did the runner try to advance to 3rd?

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm interested in how this plays out.

          I would have scored the batter as hit (1B) and recorded (erased) the runner as a 2-3-5 but without the FC. The hit was accomplished before the attempt on the lead runner therefor (in my mind) no FC.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CoachM View Post
            I would say a 2-3-5 FC. The more important question is, why did the runner try to advance to 3rd?
            Thanks i was thinking 2-3-5 as well. As for the baserunning blunder - He's a Ty Cobb wannabe
            My blog - http://sandlotwisdom.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kings over Queens View Post
              I'm interested in how this plays out.

              I would have scored the batter as hit (1B) and recorded (erased) the runner as a 2-3-5 but without the FC. The hit was accomplished before the attempt on the lead runner therefor (in my mind) no FC.
              No FC huh? Makes sense....
              My blog - http://sandlotwisdom.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info..._scorer_10.jsp

                Per 10.05(a)(2) it's a hit.

                Per 10.10(a)(1) it would also appear that the correct scoring on the out would be 2-3-5, there is no fielder's choice. Unless, per 10.10(b)(3), the play on the runner at 3rd was a result of a misplay at 1st (a wild throw or bad catch where the runner would have been safe anyway would still be a hit, and even if an error was scored on the initial play at 1B, the subsequent play at 3rd becomes a new play which is then scored a 3-5 putout).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kings over Queens View Post
                  I'm interested in how this plays out.

                  I would have scored the batter as hit (1B) and recorded (erased) the runner as a 2-3-5 but without the FC. The hit was accomplished before the attempt on the lead runner therefor (in my mind) no FC.
                  KoQ- you are correct about no FC, I thought myself into a daze on that one. Correction to my previous post, 2-3-5.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jacjacatk View Post
                    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info..._scorer_10.jsp

                    Per 10.05(a)(2) it's a hit.

                    Per 10.10(a)(1) it would also appear that the correct scoring on the out would be 2-3-5, there is no fielder's choice. Unless, per 10.10(b)(3), the play on the runner at 3rd was a result of a misplay at 1st (a wild throw or bad catch where the runner would have been safe anyway would still be a hit, and even if an error was scored on the initial play at 1B, the subsequent play at 3rd becomes a new play which is then scored a 3-5 putout).
                    jacjacatk, - thanks great stuff. I should have checked rule 10!!
                    My blog - http://sandlotwisdom.blogspot.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Until SK chimes in with the definitive answer, I'm just gonna throw my :twocents: in.....

                      I'd simply score it as "1b" for the batter/runner, and 3-5 for the put out at third, simply because IMO, those are two separate plays.

                      Had the catcher made any attempt at putting the runner out at second, I would have included him in the out, and given the batter/runner a "FC".....but since he was never directly involved in the attempt to put that runner out, I would not include him in that out and/or give him an "assist" on it.
                      Now, since I've written that, whoever wrote "2-3-5" is darn near guaranteed to be correct. :gt
                      In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mudvine, I don't think a 3-5 would apply unless like you say it was a seperate play. Example, 2 goes to 3, runner is safe. 1st basemen pauses, looks at ump or coach in disbelief while the runner rounds and heads to 3rd drawing everyones attention. THEN 3 fires to 5 for the tagout. That, IMO, would be a 3-5. A play after the play. As described by the OP it seems to me like this was one seemless play.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think the distinction with whether the C gets an assist is whether it's all one continuous play (which by rule it isn't in the case of an error or misplay, fwiw). As described, this is all one continuous play which doesn't occur without the effort of the C to field the original batted ball, so he gets an assist even without getting the batter at 1st. It's analogous to a batter hitting a single to RF with a runner on 1B who gets thrown out trying to reach third 9-4-5, since the RF isn't necessarily trying to make a play on the runner when initially throwing the ball back in. You'll also occasionally see 6-4-3 outs at 1B where the IFers are unable to get the lead runner when attempting to turn a DP but can still get the slower batter, which is also similar.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That’s all pretty interesting, but I’m not sure how in the world anyone figures there was a FC in there anywhere. After giving it some thought, I’m leanin’ toward Mud’s version. The catcher was involved only in that he was trying to get an out at 1st. Unlike say a hit to the outfield with a runner on, and the of’r throws the ball to a cutoff man, who then decides to throw it someplace to try to get a runner, there’s no way I can picture the 1B as a cutoff man.

                            What would you say if the batter runner got the hit then got tagged making too big a turn? It was still a throw from the catcher that got the ball to the 1B, but the reason he threw it was a play long over. How ‘bout this. There are runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs. After a pitch, R2 tries to steal 3rd on the throw back to the pitcher. The pitcher gets the ball and throws to 3rd for the out. Should the catcher get an assist? Or how about the bases loaded and no outs, and the catcher tries to backpick R1 but doesn’t get him, but F3 throws to 2nd to try to get R2 and doesn’t get him, then F4 throws to F5 to try to get him, but the R5 heads for home and is put out at home by the catcher. Do you mark it 2-3-4-5-2?

                            I’m sure it could be marked any of the ways mentioned and likely slip by unnoticed, but I just don’t see the catcher as part of that play. But then again I’m assuming the throw to 1st had F3 stretching to try to get the out, but the runner just beat it out, then F3 noticed the runner heading for 3rd, then threw over and got him. To me that isn’t a “continuous play”.

                            But it is an interesting question.
                            The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                              That’s all pretty interesting, but I’m not sure how in the world anyone figures there was a FC in there anywhere. After giving it some thought, I’m leanin’ toward Mud’s version. The catcher was involved only in that he was trying to get an out at 1st. Unlike say a hit to the outfield with a runner on, and the of’r throws the ball to a cutoff man, who then decides to throw it someplace to try to get a runner, there’s no way I can picture the 1B as a cutoff man.

                              What would you say if the batter runner got the hit then got tagged making too big a turn? It was still a throw from the catcher that got the ball to the 1B, but the reason he threw it was a play long over. How ‘bout this. There are runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs. After a pitch, R2 tries to steal 3rd on the throw back to the pitcher. The pitcher gets the ball and throws to 3rd for the out. Should the catcher get an assist? Or how about the bases loaded and no outs, and the catcher tries to backpick R1 but doesn’t get him, but F3 throws to 2nd to try to get R2 and doesn’t get him, then F4 throws to F5 to try to get him, but the R5 heads for home and is put out at home by the catcher. Do you mark it 2-3-4-5-2?

                              I’m sure it could be marked any of the ways mentioned and likely slip by unnoticed, but I just don’t see the catcher as part of that play. But then again I’m assuming the throw to 1st had F3 stretching to try to get the out, but the runner just beat it out, then F3 noticed the runner heading for 3rd, then threw over and got him. To me that isn’t a “continuous play”.

                              But it is an interesting question.
                              wow I have never scored a game but I didn't now there is so much jugdement of the scorer into scoring. I always thought it was pretty obvious how to score an action. but it seems like there are really some tricky situations.
                              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                              Comment

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