The year comes to an early close...

[JCincy]

I have been involved in rec ball as an adult for 6 years. I have helped with various elementary school teams as well in a variety of sports. I understand the desire of some to win, but what I discovered tonight was rather sad.

Our team was merged from 2 teams last year. 7 players from each team. I was asked to be the assistant and a parent from the other team was made the head coach. I have seen favoritism and nepotism before. This is nothing new to me.

Tonight I confronted the coach in the bottom of the 5th inning, reminding him that there is a 2 inning in the field rule for every kid. 4 kids had only played only one inning. We were losing. He told me they'd play in the 6th. I suggested there might not be a 6th. He didn't care. There was no bottom of the 6th inning. This is not my first attempted conversation with him about playing time.

I caught with him after the game and asked to speak with him. He agreed. I once again, I stated that he should even out the playing a bit. He stated clearly he was all about winning (we are 2 and 8). As the discussion went further, he made it very clear his goal was to drive certain kids out of the game.

I am done reasoning with this man. I will be sending a note to our association president. I have contacted several other parents.

There is only 1 scheduled game left, plus there might be up to 4 make up games and post season tournament.

To be plain, I am depressed, angry, and frustrated.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[tg643]

If it's part of a rec program you turn him in. If it's a travel team you walk away.

[Jake Patterson]

If you are 2-8 then let the kids who normally don't start start.. If he feels adament that you need to finish the season 3-8 then he's probably not the guy who should be coaching at this level. If you have kids who constantly sit the bench and do not play then you need to speak with someone.

I coached a Jr. High School girls' basketball team for 10 years and I played everyone every game and I always started the 8th graders at least once and always on the last game. ALL the girls felt like they had a role on the team regardless of their talent or lack thereof... We made the playoff's 10 years in a row, made the final game 7 years and won 5 titles, and we were the smallest school in the conference. Most of the girls are now mothers and had I stuck at it would be coaching their daughters in a few years... Remarkably - today they all remember being "starters."

Guys who coach the way you describe above are morons and have no idea of the toll they take, or the opportunities they miss. I get soooo tired of hearing about it in youth sports. With all the information that's available, all the seminars that speak to the contrary, all the books that have been written, and ALL the examples - good and bad - that have been set, you still have the guy that feels the game they're playing is the most important world event... All he's doing is creating bad memories.

[dominik]

He wants to make the less talented kids quit so he can win more games?

[JCincy]

TG: It is a rec.

Jake: I only hope the concept gets through to the board of our association. Their mission is "helping youth through sports".

Dominik: Yes, the two main coaches want less talented kids -- in their eyes -- to quit, so they can win more games. (Cough, cough).

The head coach's son was brought into pitch in the bottom of the 5th. We are down 5 to 3. The kid's a decent pitcher, but that's not the issue in this game. The first batter gets a solid single to the outfield and steals 2nd. The next batter moves him over to third on a sacrifice. The pitcher started throwing to 3rd to keep the runner close. Third throw, over the third baseman's head and the run scores, 6 to 3. Next batter walks. The pitcher begins throwing to first repeatedly. Yet another overthrow and the ball eventually goes out of play. The runner is awarded third. Not happy with this, the coach's son begins his barrage of third base. This kid scored on yet another overthrow... 7 to 3. He did finish out the inning with no more base runners. The coach never said a word. If it had been one of the 'lesser talented kids', he would have reprimanded them after the first failed attempt. To the kid's credit he did get a 3 rbi single in the top of the 6th. We lost 7 to 6.

I have, along with at least 3 other parents sent emails to the president of the association.

[tradosaurus]

This problem coach should start a travel team and see how well he can do. It's not the less talented kids that is the problem but the less talented coach.

On our 14U league team myself and the head coach batted all twelve in the lineup. We could have been a stronger team with only 9 in the lineup and 3 substitutions but we felt that the kids would enjoy the game more knowing they were contributing. We ended our season 6-4 with 3 games cancelled.

[Baseball gLove]

This problem coach should start a travel team and see how well he can do. It's not the less talented kids that is the problem but the less talented coach.

On our 14U league team myself and the head coach batted all twelve in the lineup. We could have been a stronger team with only 9 in the lineup and 3 substitutions but we felt that the kids would enjoy the game more knowing they were contributing. We ended our season 6-4 with 3 games cancelled.

Agree. As a coach I focus on the bottom players. I let the top players know what I expect of them. I want movement on every ball. Every player has a place to go on every pitch or ball put into play. And that is what I teach the bottom of the talent pool. The bottom are not going to get a lot of infield if at all during games, but their focus on backing up the infield can earn them an inning with a big lead. No one has played less than 3 innings on defense per game on my team.

My bread and butter on winning has always been on getting the bottom players to produce.

[ralanprod]

Guys that constantly ignore the weaker to the benefit of the stronger do an incredible amount of damage to a rec program.

Kids that aren't the most talented, but still like to play the game are what keeps rec programs going. Drive them away and the program dies on the vine.

No coach has the right to drive a kid from the game.

[Jake Patterson]

Guys that constantly ignore the weaker to the benefit of the stronger do an incredible amount of damage to a rec program.

They do an incredible amount of damage to ANY youth team.

[phillyinnj]

Bottom line is the kids who normally start and play the whole game cant be that good because you guys are 2-8...the HCIC is a total goof ball. I have seen this many times when coaches feel their starting 9 are MLB stars waiting to happen but have a losing record. Happened to my son last year during district ball so we took our game elsewhere and vowed not to look back...this year my son would smoke those kids and plays for an outstanding travel coach while the superstar district team is 0fer in tournament play. Often times I smile and say the greeting of the day when I see the coach now

[phillyinnj]

Bottom line is the kids who normally start and play the whole game cant be that good because you guys are 2-8...the HCIC is a total goof ball. I have seen this many times when coaches feel their starting 9 are MLB stars waiting to happen but have a losing record. Happened to my son last year during district ball so we took our game elsewhere and vowed not to look back...this year my son would smoke those kids and plays for an outstanding travel coach while the superstar district team is 0fer in tournament play. Often times I smile and say the greeting of the day when I see the coach now

[Jake Patterson]

I attended a HS Sports Banquet last evening... The most emotional speech given by the athletes was about BB coach. The boys thanked their new coach (6-9?) for putting fun back in baseball. "We want to thank coach for giving us the best senior memories we could have asked for. Last year we hated going to the field, this year he put the fun back in baseball, and for that we will always be thankful."

[leecemark]

--I don't understand coaches who are out there at that level for any other reason than to make it fun for the kids - all the kids. I like to win as much as anybody, but the best part of the season is seeing the kids - especially the kids who were lost at the start of the season - improve and start to get it and enjoy it. When they finally get that first hit of the season or make a nice play in the field its a great moment for them - and for me.
--We had a game last night against a team that hasn't won a game all year. Their coach was obviously frustrated and shared that with everyone. The season is almost over and most of his kids didn't have a clue, which says more about him than them, but he was getting angry about every bad at bat or miscue in the field (this is a 7-9 league). He was complaining about calls all game, even though it was apparent from the get go that even if every close call went their way it wasn't going to make a difference.
--He complained alot about me running up the score too, although nothing could have been farther from the truth. My best 3 players started in the outfield. I used a different pitcher every inning and our best pitcher didn't pitch at all. I used a different firstbaseman every inning, two of whom hadn't played there before and none of whom were our regulars. I led off the one kid on the team who hasn't got a hit yet this season.
--Then to top it off they were home team, but he decided not to have his kids take their last at bats. Sure hope not to see that guy back managing next year.

[CircleChange11]

1. The "should just be fun for all kids" stuff gets a little old. Yes, it should be fun. But then why keep score, have standings, playoff seeds, etc?

I'm one that favors having "development" and "learning" be the focus. But, we all know that is easy to have as a secondary once the games start.

2. You cannot have a participate league and a competitive league at the same time.

Contradictory philosophies and practices.

I will also say that some leagues let everyone play. They sign them up, take their money, and then let a dad manage the mentally impaired, behavior disorder, doesn't come to practice, only wants to climb the fence, players for which the dad has no official training nor help from the league other than "hey, he paid his money, he gets to play". IMHO, it's morally irresponsible. It's money collection and passing the buck on to someone else.

We had a mentally impaired player that only wanted to hit everyone in the privates. Yeah, try telling a 10yo kid to "just ignore him". The player spent some games in the bleachers with his grandpa. I didn't allow him in the dugout when he was hitting others in privates and grabbing their butts.

There are also an increasingly number of players that do not attend practices, but attend the games. It's not inherently a player issue, but a parent issue. Simply put, there is a growing factor in our society of "crappy/absent parenting". As a coach, the one thing I have absolute control over is playing time. No practice, no play.

Our age group has some very good coaches. At board meetings I hear them increasingly frustrated with kids that don;t come to practice, must be called and reminded for every game, and only want to goof off in the dugout. They essentially equate coaching in this league (9-10) with babysitting. Many of them are trained teachers, school coaches, etc.

What the league wants is as many players as possible with as many teams as possible, which they view as an indicator of league strength ... well, and each kid pays $100.

What the coaches want to quality over quantity. I'm not sure how other leagues operate but our league essentially has 6 practices before games starts, non-stop games until districts with 2-3 practices over the course of the season. Essentially a coach has to be more dedicated than the others in order to arrange more practices and ensure that the most needy players make it there (picking them up if they have to, been there done that).

Now, what eventually happens is not that the players get with it, but that the coaches eventually decide "this isn't worth" and invest their time doing something else. In our league, the concern with full-time travel baseball, isn't primarily that the best players will vacate the league, but that they'll take their dads with them and there won;t be any good coaches or board members left.

Anyway, I don;t condone a coach trying to get players to quit. But, I also understand that there may be more to the situation than appears.

I coaches youth football some years ago. Our town, in its wisdom, had a tradition of placing all 1st year players on the same team, likely under the idea that the other players could be under the same offense for multiple years. So, a team of new players served as a whipping boy for the rest of the league to beat up on. It was great for everyone else. Now, I realize my job as coach was just to make it fun for the kids, which is easy to say when you're not the team getting pounded physically and on the scoreboard. The result of this league was 2 of the most talented kids at this age level no longer play football and the most talented kid has moved out of town. But, at least some dads had a really fun year.

I bring this up because we all know there are teams that get the "short end" of the stick when it comes to talent/draft. Heck, some might even say that the whole draft/coach process is set up so that the most informed and connected dads get what they want. So, when a lesser coach with lesser players is having a frustrated year, we should not inherently blame the victim.

[leecemark]

--I agree that the players who show up for practice, work hard and pay attention deserve more playing time, higher spots in the order and more time at premium positions. We only have 10 kids and are allowed to play 10 so nobody sits, but kids who skip practice and/or goof off at practice (or in the previous game) find themselves in the outfield and the bottom of the order for the next game. Kids gets rewarded for the effort they put into it regardless of talent. Well not entirely regardless of talent. They 4 best kids mostly rotate between P, 1B, SS and LCF with the others getting only the occasional inning there. 2 kids have shared catcher, again with an occasional inning for others who wanted to try it. The remaining 4 rotate mostly between 2b, 3b and OF.