choosing a LL manager

[Megunticook]

As I detailed in another thread earlier this spring, I was asked by the manager of a LL majors team to be an assistant coach this year, after helping out last year (I was at most every practice and game). Nice guy, but pretty poor coach and minimal commitment. I bit my tongue and did my best to be a good soldier, although it was not easy at times. At the beginning of the season he said this would be his last year (his son is 12) and suggested I take over next year. That was what kept me going when I felt down about the whole experience, knowing that next year I could do things the right way.

Anyway, after I was aboard this guy invited another dad to be a second assistant coach, which was great. Decent guy, also a coach by profession (not baseball) at the local high school. This was the first year he was involved in Little League.

At the end of the season, one of the kids asked if I was going to be the manager next year, he was confused because apparently the other assistant coach had told his boy that he would be taking over.

Although I didn't show it, I have to admit it raised my fur a tad to hear that. I was surprised as the second AC seems like a decent guy and we got along fine. Not sure why he would make the assumption that he was taking over.

Guess I feel that I've paid my dues the past 2 years helping out a couple of pretty poor coaches (the guy 2 years ago was wretched, and this year's manager was his AC), and now I feel it's my turn to step in and do what I'm capable of doing. Am I unreasonable?

What would you suggest I do? I actually think me and the other AC would make a good team (we have similar approaches) and I would be happy to collaborate with him. I have no problem making many decisions mutually, listening to his input and ideas, letting him coach 3rd base if he wants, etc. But I have a pretty strong philosophy about how to run the team and I want to be in a position to set the policies, communicate with the families, etc. This guy is used to being in charge, of course, and is a very strong personality. My guess is that as manager he would pretty much be a one-man show with the ACs as support. After 2 frustrating years I'm ready to take the reins and really do something with these kids.

Should I discuss this with our league president now? Wait until next year? Discuss with the manager who coordinates our local major league? Discuss with the other AC? I don't want to get sucked into LL politics, but at the same time I feel I should stand up for myself here.

Thanks for your advice.

[jbolt_2000]

If you feel you and the other AC would make a good team, then talk to him and just tell him up front that you would like to be the HC and are willing to take on the commitment. You might get lucky and he may not want to put in all that time it takes to be a HC and let you have it.

If you want to manage a team regardless of being with this other guy or not, then I would approach the President (or BOD) and let them know your intentions for next year. They should guide you on what to do so you get a team of your own.

But.... If this other AC has already told some kids or parents that he was taking over next year, then he may have already started the process (politicking), so be ready to prove yourself capable of managing a team.

[Megunticook]

If you feel you and the other AC would make a good team, then talk to him and just tell him up front that you would like to be the HC and are willing to take on the commitment. You might get lucky and he may not want to put in all that time it takes to be a HC and let you have it.

Do this now or wait until early in 2013?

If you want to manage a team regardless of being with this other guy or not, then I would approach the President (or BOD) and let them know your intentions for next year. They should guide you on what to do so you get a team of your own.

You mean a different team? My son is playing on the team so I don't think I want to do that. The other coach is in the same boat.

But.... If this other AC has already told some kids or parents that he was taking over next year, then he may have already started the process (politicking), so be ready to prove yourself capable of managing a team.

I'm not sure who he's told, other than his son (who told some of the other kids on the team). What exactly is the "process" of politicking you refer to? Getting friendly with the other coaches, the BOD, etc. and making sure they know what an awesome dude he is and that he intends to manage the team next year? He has a reputation for being an excellent coach, and is well-established in the community and a good schmoozer from what I've seen.

What should I be doing at this point? As I say, I really don't want to get sucked into a bunch of LL politics, but maybe I need to start positioning myself with the people on the board and as you say, be prepared to make a case for myself. Haven't been in a situation like this before.

The other AC is serving as one of the two ACs for the allstar team, I just found out, which my son was chosen to be on (I assume the allstar manager, who I barely know, asked him). Which is fine with me, and I'm happy to just be a dad who helps out as needed during the allstar season. But I could easily see how this could get the other AC more established with the league and in a better position to manage our team next year.

I know this is not really anything to lose any sleep over, but for whatever reason it is definitely bothering me a bit. Seems like he should've at least discussed it with me before telling his son that he was taking over.

Does seniority mean anything in LL? Maybe not.

[tg643]

In LL departing managers don't get to pass the reigns to the coach of their choice. Managers and coaches are approved by the board. Go to the league president as soon as the season is over. Express your desires and qualfications. Also talk to the other board members in a casual manner. Campaign for the position.

[Megunticook]

OK--so when the allstar season is done, start campaigning? Or start now?

[jbolt_2000]

Do this now or wait until early in 2013?

As TG says, as soon as the season is over.

You mean a different team? My son is playing on the team so I don't think I want to do that. The other coach is in the same boat.

Well, you should still have the option of saying you want your kid to be on a different team( put back in the draft or whatever process you have). If they give the the team to the other AC, you can still make a case for you to coach a different team with your son coming over to your team. It happens all the time, but of course it depends on the number of managers coming back next year, how many teams will be made, and so on.

What exactly is the "process" of politicking you refer to? Getting friendly with the other coaches, the BOD, etc. and making sure they know what an awesome dude he is and that he intends to manage the team next year? He has a reputation for being an excellent coach, and is well-established in the community and a good schmoozer from what I've seen.

What should I be doing at this point? As I say, I really don't want to get sucked into a bunch of LL politics, but maybe I need to start positioning myself with the people on the board and as you say, be prepared to make a case for myself. Haven't been in a situation like this before.

Exactly.... You may not like politicking (I certainly don't!) but if there is only one team available to manager next year and the other AC is already schmoozing, then you best believe he is gonna get that team, unless you do something about it.

If you have the option of managing a different team then there will be less of a need for politics.

Unfortunately, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I know this is not really anything to lose any sleep over, but for whatever reason it is definitely bothering me a bit. Seems like he should've at least discussed it with me before telling his son that he was taking over.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If it doesn't happen in 2013, then there is always 2014 (or a different league).

Does seniority mean anything in LL? Maybe not.

Depends on the league. In our league there is no guarantee that if you manage this year you will manage next year. Its not automatic.
Although most do return, if a manager gets alot of complaints from parents, umpires, opponent coaches, etc... then the league will review this and decide if he will coach the following year.
Example: we had a coach at the Farm division get complained by parents and opposing coaches. He and his assistants were known to tell players to shut up, told them they weren't playing because they weren't good and more. This is 6,7 and 8 years old! He also insisted on having practices at 3:00pm and told parents that their kids would only get the minimum if they missed practices. During playoffs he called parents of lesser talented players that if they could not attend daily, 2-hour practices that they shouldn't bother even showing up for games (this was his way of driving away the lesser players so that he could keep his best players in the whole games).
I don't see this coach being asked to come back next year.

[jbolt_2000]

In LL departing managers don't get to pass the reigns to the coach of their choice. Managers and coaches are approved by the board. Go to the league president as soon as the season is over. Express your desires and qualfications. Also talk to the other board members in a casual manner. Campaign for the position.

I would bring it up whenever you see the President next. Then after A.S. try to sit down with him and discuss your intentions.

[Kan-Man]

I think the sooner you deal with this, the better. Whether it's little league or something else altogether, very little is accomplished by putting it off other than increasing your anxiety level.

The other AC might not have any sinister intent - he might just be under the impression he's expected to take over the team. Maybe the current manager gave him that impression, maybe it was a misunderstanding.

In the interest of taking the high road, I'd talk to the league and the other AC. Put all your cards on the table. A lot of the drama that exists in LL is because people aren't being open and honest which leads to paranoia and cliques (I've been dealing with this for the past few seasons - it spreads like weeds).

If your league has an open draft, and all the players are in the pool (except for manager's sons) you and the other AC could wind up competing for the same players if you both intended to manage - all the more reason to get this out in the open sooner rather than later.

[real green]

You are a year behind. If he is the All Star assistant coach than he WILL have first shot at manager next year. Talk to him and find out if that is his intentions.

Sounds like he is a good coach. If he wants the spot, think about what is best for the kids.

[Roothog66]

First, hit this head on with the other AC. It's important that the two of you know where you stand. Believe me, I've had AC who were also HS head coaches in other sports. For most of them, they want a chance to help their kid and the other kids, but really aren't interested in dealing with the parents. Be aware that what does happen is that other parents may push them to be HC. Talk to him. Let him know where he stands and be open to giving him a BIG role in decision-making. If the two of you are, indeed, on the same page, this could work out in very well for both of you. If you talk and he's intent on going for the HC job, then you at least know what the situation is.

[Megunticook]

In the interest of taking the high road, I'd talk to the league and the other AC. Put all your cards on the table.

Thanks, you are confirming what my gut is telling me. I'm thinking I should just invite him to lunch sometime to discuss what we'd like to see happen with the kids next year. Because I didn't want to undermine or badmouth the current manager, I was careful not to have that discussion during the season, although we did have a couple very brief exchanges to the effect of, "next year things are going to be run very different." I don't think a phone call or email would cut it here, a face to face is best. I'll be seeing him at allstar practices in the coming weeks but that's not the appropriate time or place for the discussion (in front of the kids).

[Megunticook]

Sounds like he is a good coach. If he wants the spot, think about what is best for the kids.

He is a good coach. There are definitely some holes in his baseball knowledge (he questioned my teaching our new pitchers to throw a 4-seamer to start with, said "what pitcher throws a 4-seamer," he was a pitcher himself in h.s. college, I diplomatically corrected him that lots of pros throw 4-seamers and its a great foundation for kids to build on--to his credit he conceded the point--although I was scratching my head as to how a guy who pitched in h.s. and college could say such a thing). His listening skills are not great, and he does like to talk at length about his accomplishments, but he has a good rapport with the kids.

But I'm a good coach also, with great rapport, good baseball knowledge, and I've spent a lot more time than he has studying how to coach you baseball and teach fundamental skills.

The kids would do well with either of us, and it would be a massive improvement over the past 2 years.

[Roothog66]

Thanks, you are confirming what my gut is telling me. I'm thinking I should just invite him to lunch sometime to discuss what we'd like to see happen with the kids next year. Because I didn't want to undermine or badmouth the current manager, I was careful not to have that discussion during the season, although we did have a couple very brief exchanges to the effect of, "next year things are going to be run very different." I don't think a phone call or email would cut it here, a face to face is best. I'll be seeing him at allstar practices in the coming weeks but that's not the appropriate time or place for the discussion (in front of the kids).

You're on the right track. Buy the guy a beer and talk baseball. I had a similar situation on my kid's 8yo travel team. We had just moved to Colorado and I really had planned to take a year or two off from coaching and just be a parent. However, the team's HC really knew nothing about baseball and had very little help, so I and another dad both stepped in to help. The HC was also the JV football coach and this dad was his assistant on that team. Before the season even started, the HC was transferred out-of-state. By now, I had decided that I wanted the position. The other AC was a very strong personality and, even though I had by far the more appropriate credentials, I was worried that he would just "take over." I invited him out for a beer and we talked. Because I had told him more than once that I had originally planned to take a year or two off, he was worried that it was all going to fall on him. He didn't want to deal with parents. He really wanted to coach, but didn't really want to have to take on the full responsibility. I took over and gave him hitting coach responsibilities and first base. It worked well. In addition, he coached the kids' football team and I assisted. In the end, his kid didn't really have talent to play at our level and moved down. It all worked out great mainly because we dealt with it right from the beginning.

[Megunticook]

Let him know where he stands and be open to giving him a BIG role in decision-making.

Yes, I've thought the same thing and would assure him that if I were manager we would work as a team, not me telling him what to do and making all the decisions myself. I'm not sure it would work the other way around, though...he is a very forceful personality and is used to being in charge.

Thanks for the opinions, everyone. I'll start with an email to the AC and suggest we get together for lunch sometime. Think I should hold off on talking to the league president and board members?

[Roothog66]

In addition, don't get completely caught up in the HC thing. Just make sure he knows you have ideas and want to make sure you have a decion-making role on the team. I've seen many situations where a HC and AC ran things in a way that you would never know who the HC was without a scorecard.