Not such a dazzling pitching performance...

[bbrages]

My son started a 9u rec game last night.

He did a lot of pitching to contact... after a little too much contact, he ended up getting pulled midway through the 3rd inning.

Here's the interesting thing... I think he gave up 2 or 3 runs in each of the first couple of innings and maybe 5 or 6 in the third. But he didn't walk a batter. He did brush a kid with an pitch inside (it was an 0-2 count, ugh...).

Through the game, he was throwing a ton of strikes; often he'd get ahead of the batter 0-2, then the batter would hit the next pitch. So I think we need to talk about throwing something a little tougher to hit when you're ahead in the count.

For what it's worth, his team came back in the later innings of the game and ended up winning...


The previous time he pitched to this team, he didn't "pitch to contact" as much -- he shut them out over three innings of relief, including striking out the last six he faced.

With the fairly lousy defense his team put up (related to age and inexperience); too much contact can really hurt you!

[JCincy]

I think a 9 year old throwing hittable pitches is awesome. I know if the defense isn't backing him up, it can be frustrating. But it sure beats a walk-a-thon... or having a bad home plate umpire ruin the game.

[scorekeeper]

My son started a 9u rec game last night.

He did a lot of pitching to contact... after a little too much contact, he ended up getting pulled midway through the 3rd inning.

Here's the interesting thing... I think he gave up 2 or 3 runs in each of the first couple of innings and maybe 5 or 6 in the third. But he didn't walk a batter. He did brush a kid with an pitch inside (it was an 0-2 count, ugh...).

Through the game, he was throwing a ton of strikes; often he'd get ahead of the batter 0-2, then the batter would hit the next pitch. So I think we need to talk about throwing something a little tougher to hit when you're ahead in the count.

For what it's worth, his team came back in the later innings of the game and ended up winning...


The previous time he pitched to this team, he didn't "pitch to contact" as much -- he shut them out over three innings of relief, including striking out the last six he faced.

With the fairly lousy defense his team put up (related to age and inexperience); too much contact can really hurt you!

Its really difficult to make much out of a story like that without having been there and having some information about the players. Who was calling the pitches, and what pitches and locations was he calling, and how well was the boy executing what he was supposed to be doing? Was it the same person calling pitches for both games? Although calling pitches isn’t exactly rocket science, not paying attention to what’s going on can and does often create problems.

Support from both the offense and defense does have an effect on pitchers, but what they have to learn is, they can’t pitch according to the support they’re receiving. They have to execute every pitch the very best they can, and once its left his fingers, they need to learn there’s nothing more they can control.

[bbrages]

No pitches were being called in either game... the catcher sets up in the middle of the plate on each pitch and any choice of location/pitch type is up to the pitcher.

IMO, the difference may have been that the pitcher was more tired in the second game and simply wasn't throwing as hard. Or it could have been tied to pitcher/batter confidence.

[CircleChange11]

I think a 9 year old throwing hittable pitches is awesome. I know if the defense isn't backing him up, it can be frustrating. But it sure beats a walk-a-thon... or having a bad home plate umpire ruin the game.

Same here.

It's been one of my biggest complaints of LL 9-10, that everyone pitches the travel pitchers whenever they can, so we get full games that are BB, K, and very few BIP.

When the non-TB pitchers pitch we see [1] more swings, [2] more BIP, but occasionally it will be just a walkfest, but I'm not going to act like the TB pitchers don;t walk a bunch on occasion either, because they do.

BIP at that level is EXACTLY what the kids need. They need to be making defensive plays, preparing for where they're going to throw the ball when it's hit to me, and swinging the %^$#@# bat.

However, you could say ...

I know if the defense isn't backing him up

... about every pitcher in the league.

It's not like the team shows up and plays gold glove defense for Pitcher A and horrible defense for pitcher B.

Defense at this age and at this level is generally "not good".

[jdfromfla]

You seem mighty bummed out over a 9u rec game, what are your expectations and what are his?

Do you think he had and lost some mastery that allowed for the hi k total the 1st time around?

How would you have felt if instead of the strikes he was gypped by an inexperienced ump and walked his way to an early exit?

Ya know at this age, they (The competition) knew from before that he (Your boy) would be in the zone (As in hi k's)..so they likely had more confidence to swing instead of taking or stepping into the bucket...Barges we're talkin 9yr olds....The kid is likely bummed because he thought he was doing the "right thing" (Throwing strikes) and is seeing the old man disapprove...chalk it up to notta biggee and work on making sure he knows when he performs that you approve...even if he "fails" gee man...talk about how Santana and Cain performed after their no no's...let him know even when it works in this game it isn't all the time successful..that is the art...If he's perfect everytime at 9...well..he won't be, I'm not saying to accept less than acceptable effort...but come on...go get an ice cream with him and laugh about it.

[bbrages]

You seem mighty bummed out over a 9u rec game, what are your expectations and what are his?

In fact, I thought he did pretty well pitching. I was bummed out over some other things in that game, but that's another thread ("coach yells at players")... I do believe that the basic objective for a pitcher at this age is throwing fastballs for strikes, and he did that.

The reason I posted this thread was as a comparison to scorekeeper's "dazzling pitching" thread that extolled the virtues of pitching to contact. It seems like you have to strike 'em all out at this age -- and with this quality of fielding -- to really do well.

One of the things I have been trying to encourage him about is controlling his emotions, taking it one pitch at a time, and trying to maintain a confident presence on the mound. I think he did well in all those areas. Even after a lot of hits against him, I didn't see him giving up.

Why do some games go well and some not? Maybe "that's just the way baseball go?" Maybe he was tired 'cause he had a friend over and they played outside all afternoon. I can say that he's not the only pitcher I've seen dominate one day and get shelled the next time out.

I have one theory that's almost too paranoid to mention, but it seems like our team's pitchers are dominant on some of the ball fields, but not on others. I wonder if the distance to the mound is not being set consistently.

[tg643]

There's nothing wrong with throwing strikes and getting hit in 9U. Throwing strikes is half the battle. If his mechanics are reasonable he's conquered the first step. As he grows and physically develops the velocity will come. With growth and experience he'll eventually pitch to quadrants rather than throwing strikes. It's the beginning of command.

[tradosaurus]

Keep encouraging your son to throw strikes.

It will give him the confidence that he will need when he gets to high school and beyond.

[CircleChange11]

It seems like you have to strike 'em all out at this age -- and with this quality of fielding -- to really do well.

That's the part of our rec league that I DO NOT like. Kids at this age, need regular catch, groundballs, and flyballs, and that ONLY comes through practice. IMO, kids at this age, especially this age, need daily practice on one thing or another. Rec Leagues don;t practice often, so what we typically get are teams based around the kids that do get daily practice (i..e, the coach's kids). 3-on-3 baseball is what I generally refer to it as.

Young kids require A LOT of practice and LESS games. What we often get is just the opposite, 6-8 practices and 22-24 games.

At the youth ages, I don't think there's a whole lot of success with the "pitch to contact" thing. That "strike out" stuff works pretty much at every level.

What you want is for the kids to practice enough to where they become good enough at routine plays that you aren't giving the other team 4 or 5 out innings, every inning.

One of the things I have been trying to encourage him about is controlling his emotions,

Understand, at 9yo, this is going to be the hardest part of it all.

[scorekeeper]

No pitches were being called in either game... the catcher sets up in the middle of the plate on each pitch and any choice of location/pitch type is up to the pitcher.

IMO, the difference may have been that the pitcher was more tired in the second game and simply wasn't throwing as hard. Or it could have been tied to pitcher/batter confidence.

Nothing at all with setting up like that. In fact I think its very prudent.

Trying to eyeball how hard a pitcher was throwing in one game and comparing it to how hard he APPEARED to be throwing in a previous game is setting one’s self up for huge mental gymnastics that really are very possible, but are very frustrating. The same thing goes for trying to quantify confidence levels.

Chances are, it was something very simple, like they didn’t get the bat on the ball very well in one game, but they did in another because they were used to seeing how he threw. How long was it between those two games, and how many games were played in that time?

[bbrages]

There were 17 days between the two games against this team, and his team played two games in between. In the first game, my son came in relief and was pitching with a comfortable lead; in the second, he was the starter -- so the batters' confidence may have been very different.

Interestingly (?), in those two games in the interim, another pitcher on the team had a similar experience: four perfect innings against the best team in their division the first game (11 strikeouts + one groundout), then slapped around by the worst team in their division the second time out. Again, the dominant performance was on a small field and the slugfest was on a larger field.

[scorekeeper]

There were 17 days between the two games against this team, and his team played two games in between. In the first game, my son came in relief and was pitching with a comfortable lead; in the second, he was the starter -- so the batters' confidence may have been very different.

Interestingly (?), in those two games in the interim, another pitcher on the team had a similar experience: four perfect innings against the best team in their division the first game (11 strikeouts + one groundout), then slapped around by the worst team in their division the second time out. Again, the dominant performance was on a small field and the slugfest was on a larger field.

I think the best thing to do is to chalk it up as stuff happens. Its how a ML pitcher can throw a perfect game one day, then get slapped around the time he pitches. I’m sure there’s an explanation, but sifting through all the possible reasons and combinations of reasons would take more time to figger out than time its gonna take for him to grow a foot taller, and by then it won’t matter.

[leecemark]

--At that age just throwing strikes should be your first, second and third concern. Our catcher also sets up dead center for every pitch and my instuctions are just to throw to the glove and not worry about the batter. They manage to move the ball around - and - out of the zone plenty even when trying to go down the pipe everytime. BIP are going to turn into baserunners about half the time in our league (7-9), but I try and be just as positive about a strike that ends up in the outfield as one that ends up in the catchers glove.
--I look at league games the same as scrimmages. I'd rather see batting and fielding practice - for both teams - than see the pitcher control all the action. Of course I only had one kid who could blow the ball by batters and take over a game so coaching "just throw strikes" was the right tactical decision as well as the right teaching one .

[HeinekenMan]

It sounds like he needs to work on velocity, location and pitch selection. Mixing in a change might pay off. Learning how to work the count could help. He also might benefit from exercises that build stamina and core strength. I noticed that you said he faded in the third inning. At that age, it's tough to pitch well past the second inning. That's especially true in the heat.

In any case, he has a solid foundation since he throws strikes. I think we all agree on that. Tell him to keep chugging away and don't let a few bad outings defeat him.