Calling Pitches

[johnlanza]

Beginning this Fall we will begin our kid-pitch journey. While the pitch-types in this age group will probably be three different speeds of a fastball, I started thinking about pitch-calling. I think I would rather just let the pitcher and catcher make those decisions.
For all age groups, what do you guys do: Let the players call the game?; Or do you call the game?
It seems to me that at some point the players will need to have those skills, so might as well start early...

[Jake Patterson]

John, at this age you'll be lucky to get the ball over the plate... Tell them to throw strikes... It's the only pitch you need to call at this age.

[mr. potato head]

While I agree with Jake, assuming your are talking about 8 or 9 y/o kids, I am curious about the process of calling pitches when the time is right. I have seen many a coach sitting on a bucket flashing signs to the catchers. I am curious at the youth level, what has worked for the board wrt to calling pitches (signals) and getting them to the catcher?

[johnlanza]

John, at this age you'll be lucky to get the ball over the plate... Tell them to throw strikes... It's the only pitch you need to call at this age.

Understand completely. But what about when the kids get a little older? Similar to what Potato Head mentioned, I've seen coaches sitting on their bucket relaying signs to the catcher (this was 11/12 yo league. I just feel that limits the kids on how they're learning to play the game. Sure there will be some players who want to be directed on every move, but I would think better players would develop if they have a little freedom, whether it's pitch decision, deciding where to throw the relay in from the outfield, etc.

[The Uncoach]

We let our kids (13U) call the game, unless at a certain point we've seen something with a batter and want to signal something specific. If they don't call they game, they never learn. I've never been a fan of the coaching staff calling the whole game.

[Dirtberry]

JohnLanza,

The most important thing in the process is child discovery after command competence!
This leads to intuitive learning that when a coach calls everything there is lesser learned response. The second most important thing is safe mechanics. The number one tenet in eliminating Elbow injuries is hinging your elbow correctly during drive and recovery.

So, what we do is teach the kids 2 movements right off the bat, first the run towards the
ball arm side of home plate then the run towards the glove arm side of home plate
fastballs by throwing down the middle from the top (axipetally)
with the break ending at the black at either side.
When the kids learn these both pronated pitches the light goes on and the self testing
then starts

If one pitch is better than the other throw the lesser pitch more so his competence is equally developed.

When they and immediately after they attain 50/50 competence
with their command start them on the next speed down the Slider and it’s directionally opposite the Sinker. These both pronated pitches are easily learned by 11 cyo.
This is where the coaches really start to meddle in sequences they do not understand so it becomes very important that all my pitchers call their own games (excluding game strategy plays) or the development is perturbed.

With the highest motor skilled proficient athletes I have them now at 12 cyo learn the –20% pitches the pronated curve and it’s direct opposite and the greatest change up on earth the down wards driven screwball both equally opposite. At this point sequencing pitches by the coach is virtually impossible and the pitcher has to talk to his catcher and be taught how to do this. What works the best is we tell the catcher only what way it is breaking by setting them up down the middle and have them sway duck step with the movement and it works beautifully. The pitcher is now only has to sequence any pitch he wants depending on the batter and this is another competence issue with coaches! Should they be calling pitches even if they understood the pitchers types? And not know how to pitch to the 4 types of batters????

Beginning this Fall we will begin our kid-pitch journey.

This is where when you talk to them they understand and the older they get the more opinionated they get and learn less in time. Do not hold them back and do no harm!!!

“ While the pitch-types in this age group will probably be three different speeds of a fastball”

Only if you let it!!! Teach him Ulnar flexion of the wrist and radial flexion of the wrist the first 2 pronated fastballs, he can do it, I have never failed in seeing this happen with hundreds in a row.

“ started thinking about pitch-calling”

This is because you wish to favor his best pitch. This is a detraction in learning unless you are stepping in to mix it up more because of his own need to only throw his best pitch psychology.

“ think I would rather just let the pitcher and catcher make those decisions”

The catcher only and always suggests, if he gets it wrong the pitcher asserts (because he has already decided by his previous result before he climbed back the bump) himself and demands his pitch, if the catcher does not change his call the pitcher signals the catcher what his is going to throw and then does so. The lesser approach even degrades your catchers learning curve.

“For all age groups, what do you guys do Let the players call the game?; Or do you call the game?”

All groups!!!!!!! If the pitcher has not learned to sequence all his pitches to the types of batters it is always because of the coaches inability to get the lesson across. This is best accomplished with a coach sitting on the bench with the pitcher and catcher getting ready for the next set of batters.

“it seems to me that at some point the players will need to have those skills, so might as well start early...”

I knew you had your head screwed on at the right torque, you’ve got it now start giving him a game.

[d-mac]

Beginning this Fall we will begin our kid-pitch journey. While the pitch-types in this age group will probably be three different speeds of a fastball, I started thinking about pitch-calling. I think I would rather just let the pitcher and catcher make those decisions.
For all age groups, what do you guys do: Let the players call the game?; Or do you call the game?
It seems to me that at some point the players will need to have those skills, so might as well start early...

We called pitches at 9, it was mostly fastball down the middle, but we weren't throwing fastballs down the middle on 0-2. We also called pickoffs and pitchouts. At 10 we had 5 location spots along with fastball, changeup, pick offs, pitchouts, and catcher back picks. This was for travel ball, but kids will always surprise you with what they are capable of.

For those in the catcher calls the game camp, most colleges don't even allow catchers to call games.

[songtitle]

We called pitches thru around 13U. Never called pitches down the middle, unless they were 3-0 and it wasn't the #4 hitter. They threw to the glove - the catcher did all the work.

[The Uncoach]

...For those in the catcher calls the game camp, most colleges don't even allow catchers to call games.

[Jake Patterson]

Understand completely. But what about when the kids get a little older? Similar to what Potato Head mentioned, I've seen coaches sitting on their bucket relaying signs to the catcher (this was 11/12 yo league. I just feel that limits the kids on how they're learning to play the game. Sure there will be some players who want to be directed on every move, but I would think better players would develop if they have a little freedom, whether it's pitch decision, deciding where to throw the relay in from the outfield, etc.

John I seldom called pitches below 13U... I waited until they got to the big field.

[The Flush]

I just got done with a bullpen session with my (almost) 9YO. He decided to use glove arm signals to tell me which pitches he was going to throw. About the only difference I could tell between all his different pitches is that the 4 seamers were the ones in the strike zone.

[shake-n-bake]

If and when your catcher calls the game (with veto power from the pitcher) it requires a lot of prep time.

It's not that the coaches aren't calling the game. They are. It's just that they are doing it prior to the game. The pitchers, catchers, and coaches go through a lot of discussion about strengths and weaknesses and situations and tendencies. To compile this information for an entire pitching staff takes time.

There's nothing really gained by letting the catcher arbitrarily put down a sign. There should be a reason, a plan that's been rehearsed prior to getting to that situation. And then from there it's like dancing. All the partners on the same page, but once in awhile feeling, instinct, or whatever, and someone breaks ranks from the obvious and even then it all feels right.

One major reason against having the kids call the game is that because of limited prep time it squeezes the number of kids pitching and catching even more. I think most would agree that you want to grow the number of kids pitching and catching.

[shake-n-bake]

I just got done with a bullpen session with my (almost) 9YO. He decided to use glove arm signals to tell me which pitches he was going to throw. About the only difference I could tell between all his different pitches is that the 4 seamers were the ones in the strike zone.

I could always tell by the sound the glove made. Bowling ball or firecracker.

[Dude Paskert]

I've told my 12U pitcher daughter that she should shake the C off until she gets the pitch she wants to throw. Their coach has told them just to mix up pitches, but hasn't gotten into the details of not throwing breaking pitches to most hitters with 3 balls (until she controls them better) or to hitters that just plain can't get around on her fastball...I've discussed these points with her but they haven't sunk in fully yet. It's hard to watch her walk a hitter who doesn't want to swing the bat and is praying for just that outcome on a screwball, but I think it's still good for her to be throwing those in games and probably also figuring out that was a poor pitch choice. She's also starting to run into (mostly 14U) kids in school ball who should see nothing but breaking pitches and the occasional fastball well out of the zone because they're 200 pounds and have ML-esque bat speed, but still seems to want to challenge them...hey, she wins those battles sometimes, but a different plan of attack is really needed.

[scorekeeper]

…There's nothing really gained by letting the catcher arbitrarily put down a sign. …

I understand, and I believe there should be lots of study and a lot of planning done at the ML level. However, as you go down in levels, it becomes increasingly difficult to get the same kind of “intelligence” on the opposing batters, and at the same time increasingly more difficult for the pitchers to be able to execute what it is he’s trying to do. Understanding that, and understanding that its very possible for a bad pitch in a bad location to be successful, just as much as its very possible for a great pitch in a great location to get hammered, on the small field especially, is there really a lot of danger in letting the catchers arbitrarily put down a sign at say the 9YO level?