NPA Velocity Program

[Iceman]

Does anyone know much about the NPA Velocity Program? Have you used it? I know its becoming the big thing, especially for HS age kids in the offseason. HBO did a story on Steve Delabar of the Mariners and how he used it during his recovery.

[Jake Patterson]

I don't see much that describes who they are or what they do...
Even the piece with Delebar says little...

[ralanprod]

My son is doing an 8 week program over the summer being run by a former MLB pitcher and a local doctor. I know they are using a good bit of the exercises from the NPA program, but I'm not completely sure what they aren't using from that program - or what they have added on their own.

Basically they are having the pitchers do a lot of work with resistance bands, lite weights, and weighted balls. The aim is to isolate and strengthen the specific muscles used in pitching. I can pay attention to what they are doing this weekend instead of shooting the breeze with the other dads and let you know more specifics.

[Jake Patterson]

I am always leary of a program that is difficult to understand or an organization that offers themselves as the 'national' organization, filled with "advisors."

How about the Jake Patterson National University of Good Coaching Practices.

[bryan2137]

How about the Jake Patterson National University of Good Coaching Practices.

Do you have any clinics scheduled for Ohio in 2012?

[pcarnette]

I have some insight into this program. My son, who's about to turn 10, did a velocity training program this past winter through Gary Lavelle's Complete Game Baseball program out at Greenbrier Christian Academy in Chesapeake, Virginia. This was the first such program in the Tidewater region, and it uses the NPA Velocity Program as its basis.

Essentially, a players baseline velocity is established via a number of radar gun readings, and then that baseline and the player's age, height, and weight, etc. are used to create a velocity program that is tailor-made. This is the tricky part, because the NPA creates the program, and it truly is a black box. It's what you're really paying for, their 'expertise'.

So once your program is established it runs for ten weeks. Every three weeks your velocity is measured, again with a radar gun. After nine weeks, you take a week off, and then your final measurements are done. Assuming max effort is given and correct and efficient mechanics are utilized, they guarantee a 3-5 mph increase in velocity.

My son's program consisted of various over-weight and under-weight balls done a set number of times as either rocker or run-and-guns and as either holds or throws. Two days a week the full program is done (holds and throws) with one day a week in the middle where only the holds are done.

This program was expensive and it is even moreso now as they're selling the equipment along with the plan. I wound up getting my own equipment during the winter and it was probably much cheaper as a result. The plan was useful for my son, but he was probably too young in retrospect and not because of his physicality, but more because of his maturity (not always giving max effort) and some mechanical issues (though through coach supervision and a lot of work on both our parts we ironed out a lot of mechancial issues with his throwing). He did post a 5 mph increase at the end of the ten weeks.

He is actually doing the same winter program again this summer with me on our own. We already have the equipement and plan. He's more mature (willing to give more effort) and has better mechanics, and essentially it is free to do apart from our time. I'm not gunning him either. I can tell it is getting him to realize his potential more however. I've had him sting my hand bad enough inside a glove to have it truly hurt a couple of times. I give him a "That a boy". He likes that. He feels more confident in his ability to throw hard. We have quality father-son time, and it's been a pretty positive experience overall.

[CircleChange11]

I have some insight into this program. My son, who's about to turn 10, did a velocity training program this past winter through Gary Lavelle's Complete Game Baseball program out at Greenbrier Christian Academy in Chesapeake, Virginia. This was the first such program in the Tidewater region, and it uses the NPA Velocity Program as its basis.

Essentially, a players baseline velocity is established via a number of radar gun readings, and then that baseline and the player's age, height, and weight, etc. are used to create a velocity program that is tailor-made. This is the tricky part, because the NPA creates the program, and it truly is a black box. It's what you're really paying for, their 'expertise'.

So once your program is established it runs for ten weeks. Every three weeks your velocity is measured, again with a radar gun. After nine weeks, you take a week off, and then your final measurements are done. Assuming max effort is given and correct and efficient mechanics are utilized, they guarantee a 3-5 mph increase in velocity.

My son's program consisted of various over-weight and under-weight balls done a set number of times as either rocker or run-and-guns and as either holds or throws. Two days a week the full program is done (holds and throws) with one day a week in the middle where only the holds are done.

This program was expensive and it is even moreso now as they're selling the equipment along with the plan. I wound up getting my own equipment during the winter and it was probably much cheaper as a result. The plan was useful for my son, but he was probably too young in retrospect and not because of his physicality, but more because of his maturity (not always giving max effort) and some mechanical issues (though through coach supervision and a lot of work on both our parts we ironed out a lot of mechancial issues with his throwing). He did post a 5 mph increase at the end of the ten weeks.

He is actually doing the same winter program again this summer with me on our own. We already have the equipement and plan. He's more mature (willing to give more effort) and has better mechanics, and essentially it is free to do apart from our time. I'm not gunning him either. I can tell it is getting him to realize his potential more however. I've had him sting my hand bad enough inside a glove to have it truly hurt a couple of times. I give him a "That a boy". He likes that. He feels more confident in his ability to throw hard. We have quality father-son time, and it's been a pretty positive experience overall.

I have an interesting experience. One summer my Legion coach, a non-pitching coach for a D1 school in the MVC, prohibited me from throwing curveballs. At a lefty throwing 72-74 with the curve being, by far, my best pitch, this was rather devastating. I spent the summer trying to get Legion hitters out with my fastball, taking my lumps on occasion. By the mid and toward the end of Legion I found myself being able to get my fastball by more and more hitters and locating it better. That fall, at JuCo fall ball I was clocked at 82. My dad put the word out for a "6'3 left-hander, 82mph" and I transferred to a very good D3 school over the winter (passed up a D2 scholarship with a great coach because I didn't know any better). Got up to 84mph the following year and started to get some attention. That I weighed 155 was intriguing to scouts because they likely thought with some filling out, or since it was 1994, steroids (grin), the velocity might continue to increase.

It sounds strange, but to throw harder, I just threw harder ... and got faster little by little until a bunch of little changes added up to a big change. Best thing for my "career" ever.

After my sophomore year, I started doing long toss (foul pole to foul pole) with a buddy. I didn't have a set purpose, but my best friend wanted to do it (SFG, 14th round) and I was good at it and it was fun.

IMHO, any "weight resistance" program before puberty, and possibly even a year or so after, is going to be limited in effectiveness and possibly more risk than reward. That does NOT include things like wall sits for catchers, and bodyweight exercises and so on. Turns out climbing trees is "strength training".

What I want to see in programs like the one you mentioned is a "control group". have a group of kids throw as often, in the same amounts, with the same intensity, for the same duration, measuring their velocity along the way and see how they compare to the group that followed their program.

Might be VERY interesting.

I'm a HUGE fan of strength-training and do it myself. I'm less of a fan when it's applied to pre-pubescent kids in this specific fashion for that specific purpose.

[Iceman]

pcarnette-
How often are the throws measured?

I've seen several weighted ball programs. I know Wolforth is a big proponent of radaring every throw. He feels (and I feel) if you don't measure it, most players won't give 100%. That's from my coaching experiences. I just wanted to see what others thought on this topic.

[Iceman]

pcarnette-
How often are the throws measured?

I've seen several weighted ball programs. I know Wolforth is a big proponent of radaring every throw. He feels (and I feel) if you don't measure it, most players won't give 100%. That's from my coaching experiences. I just wanted to see what others thought on this topic.

[tradosaurus]

I agree that weights and resistance training should be minimal for pre-puberty kids.

I also believe that running and long toss are the key ingredients to increased velocity at an early age.

Throwing (and batting) is more lower body, IMO than upper body.

[HeinekenMan]

Back in the 1960s, no pitchers could throw more than 70 mph because they didn't practice with weighted balls...

Seriously, I think it's mostly unnecessary for velocity except at the highest level, where 2-3 mph could make a huge difference in effectiveness. But such training may improve endurance and minimize the threat of injury. I don't think it's necessarily harmful (though it could be in performed incorrectly), but I don't think anyone should shell out a bunch of cash to toss around bocce balls.

[pcarnette]

pcarnette-
How often are the throws measured?

I've seen several weighted ball programs. I know Wolforth is a big proponent of radaring every throw. He feels (and I feel) if you don't measure it, most players won't give 100%. That's from my coaching experiences. I just wanted to see what others thought on this topic.

They take the baseline measurements and then measure every three weeks. So at Week 3, Week 6, and Week 9. The a week is taken off and a final measurement is done at Week 10.

[Dirtberry]

Iceman,

“Does anyone know much about the NPA Velocity Program?”

The latest and greatest from the NPA is their addition of a deceleration element by holding onto the weight. This is good news to see them finally add on the long known “sport specific“ resistance training interval training program that allows you resistance train (overload) in your competitive motion. Dr.Marshall is the pioneer in these elements and would approve, he prefers wrist weights from 2 lb youth to 30 lb adults because the hand is empty during recovery mechanics? He uses 2 thru 15 lb. balls for driveline resistance and release.

“Have you used it?”

Yes and know it’s type of physiological gains in strength ( not velocity) that eliminate many fitness injury issues and if performed “sport specifically” the same way you compete (currently The NPA allows many forms of injurious force application making “sport specific” resistance training impossible although, I have found when applying overload sport specifically your mechanic begins to find the right timings and lengths intuitively) depending on the injuriousness of you mechanic will also add greatly in the neural motor switching necessary to become the best you can be..

“I know its becoming the big thing, especially for HS age kids in the off season”

Training to regression, climbing the intervals in the fall and winter to where you could not compete because of it’s taxing nature is the holey grail for sports driven athletes but most baseball players “generally train” and do not sport specifically train and are in a continual and actual detraining mode with muscle imbalances because of uniformity in muscle learning and growing because they have to compete, tryout , showcase etc. that perturbs a methodical interval training timeline.

Some HS kids are advanced maturers and are considered adults skelletally, at this point they should be training daily 365 cdy.

“HBO did a story on Steve Delabar of the Mariners and how he used it during his recovery”

Sport specific exercise is the best way to rehab pitchers if they posses non-injurious mechanics.

Case in point, same production organization does piece on Matt Kemp and how he trains by way of his trainer where they pliometrically run, hop, one leg then two legs, sprint up and dowm Bleachers at a stadium non-sport specifically and very maximally.
During early competition Mr. Kemp severely tears his “hammie”
The short head of the Biceps Femoris muscle is the 'hamstring' to which Mr.Kemp kept tearing repeatedly until the high grade one.
Dr.MM- “When athletes simultaneously contract the muscles that flex and the muscles that extend the knee, athletes injure the short head of their Biceps Femoris muscle.
This means that 'hamstring' injuries are co-contraction injuries.
Co-contraction injuries result from a flaw in the motor unit contraction and relaxation sequence”(neural).

This means that, Mr. Kemps trainer coach did not properly train Mr.Kemp to perform the activity he was to perform the field conditions of grass and dirt in the manors they are performed.

“I've seen several weighted ball programs.”

Which ones, they all do it differantly?

“I know Wolforth is a big proponent of radaring every throw”

I try to keep micro waves and x-rays as far from youths as possible accept when necessary

He feels (and I feel) if you don't measure it, most players won't give 100%.

Intent must be learned voluntarily so that it can be brought to the game, if it is forced through artificial means it is not learned. Training should be applied with non maximal intent at times to adjust discomfort through stress, remember this is training and not competition when discussing heavier resistance training. The ballistic portion of your training should be performed maximally with a baseball but also should be weighed against fitness and training regression through increasing intervals.

“That's from my coaching experiences”

It’s great that you have one and are interested enough to help your child, most do not.

“I just wanted to see what others thought on this topic”

This is a great reason to answer you, the question now is are you curious enough to find out where this added information in their program came from and how that information was learned through already known sports exercise physiology?

Jake,

“I don't see much that describes who they are or what they do...
Even the piece with Delebar says little...”

They must sell their product, that’s OK. Unless the mechanics produce injuries?
They are open to law suit, this litigation is increasing.

There is a much better program that is free and the fathers can administrate and coach it.
and did I mention it is entirely free.

“I am always leary of a program that is difficult to understand or an organization that offers themselves as the 'national' organization, filled with "advisors."”

I am always leery of a program that is filled with past player advisors who have collectively yards of zippers on their elbows and shoulders and have not changed a thing.

Pcarnette,

“My son, who's about to turn 10, did a velocity training program this past winter through Gary Lavelle's Complete Game Baseball program.”

Did the organization biologically age your son to match the proper stressor numbers and drill levels to make a correct motor skill training (non intervaled) program? He may be biologically 9. Interval Training a ten cyo (especially one with traditional nominal injurious mechanics) is ludicrous, teaching him how to train is acceptable. His epicondyle at the elbow end of the Humerus shows up as translucent, this should tell you something!!!! Work on his motor skill now, do not train him but teach him to train in small timelines.

“This was the first such program in the Tidewater region, and it uses the NPA Velocity Program as its basis.”

Are they also training 8 and 9 and 10 cyo’s ??

”Essentially, a players baseline velocity is established via a number of radar gun readings”

Is the fitness of the test athlete known at start?
Are his fast twitch to slow twitch muscle percentages known?
Do they eliminate all ballistic throwing (underload, ball max throwing) that actually builds velocity so it is not added to see if stand alone resistance training was the element that attained the velocity?

If not any study is worthless as many other field studies are and their conclusions that proceed this way when all of these questions are known already in the sports physiological literature and past scientific discovery.

“that baseline and the player's age, height, and weight, etc. are used to create a velocity program that is tailor-made.”

Really? This makes me think they think great velocity comes from resistance work (overload) and not Neural work (underload) that all humans can produce.
Highest velocity is purely genetic, some people just have more fast twitch with certain motions.
Or this means the fat kid will be lesser taxed in the program, don’t they realize body size and shape have nothing to do with fitness and the real reason people produce velocity?

“This is the tricky part, because the NPA creates the program, and it truly is a black box. It's what you're really paying for, their 'expertise'”

Buyer beware, the mechanics are known injury producers (like all traditional mechanics) and the training is “general” accept the new plagiarized (or realized) stuff.

”So once your program is established it runs for ten weeks.”

This should be divided up into time allotments depending on biological age all leading up to adult hood where the program never stops.

“Every three weeks your velocity is measured, again with a radar gun”

Velocity goes up with age and use with all throwing aspect parts of any program.
How much were you guys throwing balls?

“After nine weeks, you take a week off”

Rest = atrophy, at a 1.5 to one ratio to work. This means your athlete lost 2 weeks of fitness through detraining to be at the 7 week fitness level.

“Assuming max effort is given and correct and efficient mechanics are utilized”

What a great start to this sentence, then it just dove of the cliff, The NPA teaches a form of the traditional centripetal mechanics that are known to be injurious at many joints unless correct for you is being OK with pitching injuries that most are.

“they guarantee a 3-5 mph increase in velocity”

With just a throwing program maximally applied does this!

My son's program consisted of various over-weight and under-weight balls done a set number of times as either rocker or run-and-guns and as either holds or throws.

Lets hope you and they realize the throwing element is what is gaining the velocity.
The new “hold” ( better done with wrist weights) strengthens you decelerator groups with sport specific resistance helping strengthen those groups, it’s great to see the NPA finally improve.

“Two days a week the full program is done (holds and throws) with one day a week in the middle where only the holds are done.”

This is a detraining timeline. They are learning what to do this is good but their interval timings are off and detrimental. Humans better make physiological adjustments with daily activity and repeat routine time.

”This program was expensive and it is even moreso now as they're selling the equipment along with the plan.”

Can you blame them? People that fall into their pseudo scientific spell because the numble minded media that gets their 15 minutes in your pocket also have it going on in this capitalistic society, hype is all and real information that actually has merit has to climb through the marketing of the free speakers.

“The plan was useful for my son, but he was probably too young in retrospect and not because of his physicality, but more because of his maturity”

His bone growth potential is the main concern at these ages!!
Teach him the concepts and you take over the program!!!

“(not always giving max effort)”

Keep reminding him in different terms, this is the only way to do it.
Always shut him down when he has less intensity, he will get it in time especially if he enjoys it and driving HR’s off of dad and long toss is always enjoyable.

“and some mechanical issues (though through coach supervision and a lot of work on both our parts we ironed out a lot of mechanical issues with his throwing)”

I’ll call you on this one, which ones did he get??????? Please be detailed and lengthy!

“He did post a 5 mph increase at the end of the ten weeks"

Throwing does this to you, wah lah.

”He is actually doing the same winter program again this summer with me on our own.”

Now your talking! This is the way it should be, fathers should be the ones thinking through timelines and actively dictating how much and when their kids should participate. Since all these organizations put biological age in a drawer at the back you will have to asses this yourself and control it.

“He's more mature (willing to give more effort) and has better mechanics”

Better in what aspect? I have trouble getting to better when they are known to be injurious.

“I'm not gunning him either.”

Good, there is no need to have it, teach him to sequence batters with 4 pitches, 2 that run right and 2 that run left and all pronated by the time he is 12 cyo.

”I can tell it is getting him to realize his potential more however.”

This may be the best reason to teach them early by just going through the motions, time after time to where he is able to take it over.

“He feels more confident in his ability to throw hard.”

Ben Hogan said “repetition” is the magic elixir.

[Iceman]

Dirt-
Quit being a troll and tell us what you're selling. If its good put it on here for everyone. I assume you know how to use a computer. Link it up, back it up with facts. I'm not a parent. I'm a coach that has had 10X more success than you ever will. Tell me your product and I will tell you if I'm interested. You come on here all the time trolling and trying to sell your products/philsophies. By the way, I don't like the NPA and the last time I looked Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson don't have yards of zippers on their elbows or shoulders.

[Dirtberry]

Iceman,

”Quit being a troll and tell us what you're selling”

You must have missed that part, this information is free.

“If its good put it on here for everyone”

I have done this here in detail, you only need to look it up.
The information I gave about the NPA, you asked for, remember?

“I assume you know how to use a computer”

What does me knowing how to use a computer have to do with you speaking in blanket statements now instead of being specific?

“Link it up, back it up with facts. I'm not a parent”

Be specific, I cant answer generalities, with what I said what do you not understand?

“I'm a coach that has had 10X more success than you ever will”

Going personal when you have no idea what accomplishments I have produced is more of a dodge than a challenge. Boring would be to list them. Although I was proud to have produced my 3rd Gatorade player of the year in Cali. This year from Mater Dei HS. See boring!!!

“Tell me your product and I will tell you if I'm interested”

What are you talking about, I gave my opinion on the NPA pedagogy. If you have a legitimate question I will answer it with sincerity, I expect the same from you and in no way did I associate you with the NPA.

“You come on here all the time trolling and trying to sell your products/philsophies”

I have never offered up my opinion for sale, the philsophy is actual sports physiology all elite athletes can use, how could you get this so wrong unless you were trying?

“By the way, I don't like the NPA”

I like all of them (organizations), I just want them to get these things correct when they seldom do, at least they are trying!

“the last time I looked Nolan Ryan”

Look again and you will see what finally ended the great Noley. He had major reconstructive surgeries to his arm to fix it with plenty of zippers involved.
Now we can’t blame House for that in that Noley only went through fitness training with him and his mechanics pretty much remained the same.

“Randy Johnson don't have yards of zippers on their elbows or shoulders”

Randy Johnson was almost injury free from his mostly non-injurious top half mechanics.
Only when he took Tom House’s advise to attain a longer stride did he go under the knife to fix his now destroyed knee but you are just learning this aren’t you. Arthroscopy only produces little zippers anyways

You got anymore names of pitchers you think escaped the revenges of the traditional pitching motion the NPA is alright with. I can name you hundreds of youth pitchers who have gone down by their pedagogy but then I live here where they are.