About to begin the pitching journy!

[Coletrain]

My son just turned 8. He will start kidpitch next year. Where do we begin to insure proper mechanics? Thanks!!!

[scorekeeper]

My son just turned 8. He will start kidpitch next year. Where do we begin to insure proper mechanics? Thanks!!!

Start with making sure he can play catch correctly, and hit a 4’X4’ target every time from 20-30’, and never let a partner of his playing catch, chase a ball.

[tg643]

My son just turned 8. He will start kidpitch next year. Where do we begin to insure proper mechanics? Thanks!!!

Make sure he has proper throwing mechanics before teaching pitching mechanics. It all works from the bottom up. If the footwork is wrong, everything else will be off. Just a note: The kids my son played with who were the stud pitchers in 9/10's were not the high school pitchers. I let my son pitch one inning per week at nine, two at ten, three at eleven and three to six at twelve. He threw mid 80's in high school. Three local kids I knew who were the 9/10 pitching studs and pitched too much in travel threw their arms in slings by age twelve. They washed out in middle school ball.

[trademark]

Start with making sure he can play catch correctly, and hit a 4’X4’ target every time from 30-30’, and never let a partner of his playing catch, chase a ball.

So if he/she can hit a 4X4 target, then they have good mechanics?

[trademark]

Double post...

[scorekeeper]

So if he/she can hit a 4X4 target, then they have good mechanics?

Never Said that. The question was: “Where do we begin to insure proper mechanics?” I don’t know how to insure a better basic foundation than trying to make sure the most basic of fundamentals is there. If a kid can’t hit a 4x4’ target at 20-30’ with absolutely NO pressure on him, its extremely unlikely he’ll suddenly be able to do it in a game.

Do you have some better idea? I know I’ve seen a lot more kids be thrown to the wolves without having basic throwing fundies than that do, and it isn’t a very pretty sight.

[Dirtberry]

Coletrain,

“My son just turned 8”

Now we know his chronological age. You need to know his biological age.
It’s very difficult to know at this age, is he a advanced, equated or delayed maturer?

Right now if you were to have an x-ray taken of his Epicondyle (the large structure at the elbow end of his Humerus) where there are many growth centers it will show up as translucent, this should tell you something!!!!

“He will start kidpitch next year”

Listen and hear TG here!!!

“Where do we begin to insure proper mechanics?”

There is only one place all fathers and mothers should study to learn what is really happening with overhead throwing mechanics with youth and adult throwers and pitchers. Go to DrMikeMarshalls web site and learn! It is free. Have an exit and return strategy to get through it. If you have any questions e-mail him or ask here, he will not big league you. He is an expert in the subjects Motor skill acquisition , exercise physiology and Kinesiology with emphasis in male youth bone growth patters that will help you in future decisions.

[HeinekenMan]

Make sure he has proper throwing mechanics before teaching pitching mechanics. It all works from the bottom up. If the footwork is wrong, everything else will be off. Just a note: The kids my son played with who were the stud pitchers in 9/10's were not the high school pitchers. I let my son pitch one inning per week at nine, two at ten, three at eleven and three to six at twelve. He threw mid 80's in high school. Three local kids I knew who were the 9/10 pitching studs and pitched too much in travel threw their arms in slings by age twelve. They washed out in middle school ball.

I am thinking of taking a similar approach with my son. I don't want him to tear up his arm at age 12. I do know of a few exceptions, though. I know of a kid who pitched at every level and now throws in the high 80s as a high school junior. I did warn his dad a few weeks ago to make sure that all of the travel and high school ball doesn't put too much stress on the kid's arm.

[Coletrain]

"Now we know his chronological age. You need to know his biological age.
It’s very difficult to know at this age, is he a advanced, equated or delayed maturer?"

Are you talking about size? If so, he is average for an 8yo. He is 4'3" 60ish lbs. Athletically, he is on the higher end I would guess. He has played SS on 10U rec teams and 8U tourny teams. He went to the Bucky Dent Baseball Camp in Atlanta in June. They give you a print out with player stats at the end of the week. His 60 time was 10.6, bat speed was 45MPH and throwing was 45MPH. I'm not sure this answered your question or not.

[clayadams]

"Now we know his chronological age. You need to know his biological age.
It’s very difficult to know at this age, is he a advanced, equated or delayed maturer?"

Are you talking about size? If so, he is average for an 8yo. He is 4'3" 60ish lbs. Athletically, he is on the higher end I would guess. He has played SS on 10U rec teams and 8U tourny teams. He went to the Bucky Dent Baseball Camp in Atlanta in June. They give you a print out with player stats at the end of the week. His 60 time was 10.6, bat speed was 45MPH and throwing was 45MPH. I'm not sure this answered your question or not.

He's talking about getting an x-ray done of your son's arm. It will show how much he's physically matured.

[Dirtberry]

coletrain,

“I'm not sure this answered your question or not”

Biological age has nothing to do with size and weight but you do get a strength factor and advanced maturers will be more robust in general.

At 8 years chronically it is very difficult to know and x-rays at this age may not help unless he is an advanced maturer by a few years and even then the bone indicators are lesser pronounced. The best thing to do is at 10 cyo(as close to his birthday as possible) get x-rays of both his elbows and have the Radiologist tell you what his biological age is.
All boys develop at different time intervals, this is indicated through x-rays of his growth plates and the solidification of his epicondyle at the elbow end of his Humerus.
Boy’s have up to a 5 year difference in biological maturity. This is why you see some boys shaving at 12 cyo and some not until 17 cyo. The boys that are advanced maturers normally get all the pitching work and these are the ones that are degraded the most by the LL and club coaches. You need to know if your son is a delayed maturer to make an informed decision on if and when he should start pitching and how much training and competition he goes through. Do not believe people who tell you he needs to pitch in order to pitch later, this is as far from the truth as it gets.
The key indicator with youth players is the solidification of the epicondyle that starts with equated maturers at 9 biological and chronological years old where a dime sized white spot appears (opaque) at the tip of the epicondyle, at 10 this dot is a nickel sized, at 11 a quarter sized, at 12 fity cent sized and when he turns 13 the whole epicondyle turns white and solidifies. Also at 13 the first of his many growth plates start to close and when he is 16 all the growth plates in his elbows have now closed.
If these growth centers are overstressed they prematurely close sooner than if they were not overstressed, if one or more of the growth plates is cracked or torn away they solidify upon healing and loose some or all their growth potential that can never be gained back. The most susceptible growth plate in the elbow is the medial epicondyle growth plate that sometimes is completely removed from the rest of the elbow and then has to be surgically repaired. Go over to ASMI and read some of the horror stories covering this issue.

If you get x-rays at 13 cyo and your kid has been pitching a lot for years he will show a difference in the biological age between both arms, meaning his pitching arm may be 1 or 2 years older by closure. In fact my own Humerus on my ball side arm is ¾ of an inch shorter than my glove arm because I pitched since I was 8 cyo.

Good luck and do no harm.

[Coletrain]

coletrain,



Biological age has nothing to do with size and weight but you do get a strength factor and advanced maturers will be more robust in general.

At 8 years chronically it is very difficult to know and x-rays at this age may not help unless he is an advanced maturer by a few years and even then the bone indicators are lesser pronounced. The best thing to do is at 10 cyo(as close to his birthday as possible) get x-rays of both his elbows and have the Radiologist tell you what his biological age is.
All boys develop at different time intervals, this is indicated through x-rays of his growth plates and the solidification of his epicondyle at the elbow end of his Humerus.
Boy’s have up to a 5 year difference in biological maturity. This is why you see some boys shaving at 12 cyo and some not until 17 cyo. The boys that are advanced maturers normally get all the pitching work and these are the ones that are degraded the most by the LL and club coaches. You need to know if your son is a delayed maturer to make an informed decision on if and when he should start pitching and how much training and competition he goes through. Do not believe people who tell you he needs to pitch in order to pitch later, this is as far from the truth as it gets.
The key indicator with youth players is the solidification of the epicondyle that starts with equated maturers at 9 biological and chronological years old where a dime sized white spot appears (opaque) at the tip of the epicondyle, at 10 this dot is a nickel sized, at 11 a quarter sized, at 12 fity cent sized and when he turns 13 the whole epicondyle turns white and solidifies. Also at 13 the first of his many growth plates start to close and when he is 16 all the growth plates in his elbows have now closed.
If these growth centers are overstressed they prematurely close sooner than if they were not overstressed, if one or more of the growth plates is cracked or torn away they solidify upon healing and loose some or all their growth potential that can never be gained back. The most susceptible growth plate in the elbow is the medial epicondyle growth plate that sometimes is completely removed from the rest of the elbow and then has to be surgically repaired. Go over to ASMI and read some of the horror stories covering this issue.

If you get x-rays at 13 cyo and your kid has been pitching a lot for years he will show a difference in the biological age between both arms, meaning his pitching arm may be 1 or 2 years older by closure. In fact my own Humerus on my ball side arm is ¾ of an inch shorter than my glove arm because I pitched since I was 8 cyo.

Good luck and do no harm.

OK, now I understand! Thanks! I want let him throw too much. I just wanted him to be as mechanically sound as possible so he doesn't get hurt.

[pcarnette]

He's talking about getting an x-ray done of your son's arm. It will show how much he's physically matured.

Interestingly enough, I had my wife ask our peditrician about this at my son's 10 year-old physical. The doctor said they typcially only due the bone age test if the child is short for their age.

[Ursa Major]

While I've disagreed with much of what Dirtberry has said over the years, he's dead on with this point: "Do not believe people who tell you he needs to pitch in order to pitch later, this is as far from the truth as it gets."

This isn't to say that a kid should AVOID pitching. But you shouldn't fall for the temptation to have your kid recognized as a stud who the manager can trust to go out and give six innings per start, twice per week. What is great about baseball in many respects is amplified in the role of pitcher - while it's a team game, you have the pressure of the team's success thrust on your shoulders and you can achieve that success with focus, discipline and hard work without necessarily being gifted. Becoming comfortable in that role makes a youngster more comfortable when that role is thrust on him in schoolwork, in the school play, during his Bar Mitzvah, and on in life. But that doesn't require pitching 12 innings per week.

And, as TG notes, make sure the kid is simply throwing correctly. This is the time when his basic mechanics will be taking shape, and a kid who's throwing with too much arm and too little body will be tougher to scale up in a couple of years than a kid who "gets it" now. (And he'll be at less risk of hurting his arm too boot.)

While I'm not sure exactly how it would play out, I'm a little worried about Scorekeep's focus on making sure a kid can consistently hit a 4'x4' target - sure, that can be a good standard for the parent or coach, but if you get the kid too obsessed with that, you'll end up with an arm-only dart thrower. The emphasis should be on throwing hard through that target, in the hope that the accuracy will come.

[JCincy]

He's talking about getting an x-ray done of your son's arm. It will show how much he's physically matured.

Whew... I thought he was talking about cutting him in half and counting the rings.