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  • First Big Name Organized Tourney Review

    My son has been playing local "tourney ball" for the last few years over the summer. This is the first year our team scheduled a "Big Name Organized" tourney out of town. Thank goodness we were there more for the vacation and social time than the baseball. The competition was no different than any local tourney we play in.

    My expectations of play were much higher than what actually showed up. Many of the teams were considered high ranked teams with some sporting national championship titles. The reality is they are just 10yr olds playing baseball. The same errors, the same mental mistakes, the same quality of pitching, etc... that you get from any good group of athletic 10's. The quality of baseball was just like every other tourney. Some really good, some OK, and some not so good teams.

    This tourney was considered a qualifier for entry to a National Championship tourney, what a joke that is! Let's just say qualifying to play in one of these "National Tourneys" is not tough. Also one of the teams I follow, actually won a National Tourney last year and they have been sporting it like it was the World Series. Not to take anything form that team, it's not easy to win any tourney, but this was not the best of the best from the Nation coming together to find out who's the best.

    It was fun. We went 2-2 for the weekend with a consolation trophy and a qualifying birth to the national tourney coming in the fall. 4 teams of 12 qualified! The organizers were good at making the kids and some parents feel like they were the best of the best. If they wanted to truly test their skills they had to play this invitational national tourney coming up.

  • #2
    Originally posted by real green View Post
    My son has been playing local "tourney ball" for the last few years over the summer. This is the first year our team scheduled a "Big Name Organized" tourney out of town. Thank goodness we were there more for the vacation and social time than the baseball. The competition was no different than any local tourney we play in.

    My expectations of play were much higher than what actually showed up. Many of the teams were considered high ranked teams with some sporting national championship titles. The reality is they are just 10yr olds playing baseball. The same errors, the same mental mistakes, the same quality of pitching, etc... that you get from any good group of athletic 10's. The quality of baseball was just like every other tourney. Some really good, some OK, and some not so good teams.

    This tourney was considered a qualifier for entry to a National Championship tourney, what a joke that is! Let's just say qualifying to play in one of these "National Tourneys" is not tough. Also one of the teams I follow, actually won a National Tourney last year and they have been sporting it like it was the World Series. Not to take anything form that team, it's not easy to win any tourney, but this was not the best of the best from the Nation coming together to find out who's the best.

    It was fun. We went 2-2 for the weekend with a consolation trophy and a qualifying birth to the national tourney coming in the fall. 4 teams of 12 qualified! The organizers were good at making the kids and some parents feel like they were the best of the best. If they wanted to truly test their skills they had to play this invitational national tourney coming up.
    Maybe at some point a class-action suit for some kind of fraud might stop all this "National" nonsense.
    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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    • #3
      We had fun, but is this what it's going to take to grow as a player? The tournament, title, or ranking has nothing to do with improving a players skills. The tourney itself is very much a business only.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by real green View Post
        We had fun, but is this what it's going to take to grow as a player? The tournament, title, or ranking has nothing to do with improving a players skills. The tourney itself is very much a business only.
        Coach Weaver just put out a great monthy newsletter article that explains all this... Maybe he can post here.

        These tournaments are NOT what it's going to take to grow.
        "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
        - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by real green View Post
          We had fun, but is this what it's going to take to grow as a player? The tournament, title, or ranking has nothing to do with improving a players skills. The tourney itself is very much a business only.
          I'm not following you. You went to one tournament. You had fun. You qualified for one more tournament, if you choose to go. What's your beef? (Only new or bad teams are in these qualifiers, since last year's National teams are probably automatically qualified)
          Last edited by songtitle; 07-31-2012, 07:20 PM.
          efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
            Maybe at some point a class-action suit for some kind of fraud might stop all this "National" nonsense.
            Fraud? What are you talking about?
            efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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            • #7
              What state was this in...?
              What brand name...? USSSA? AAU? Super Series? NABF? AABC?
              I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by real green;2043939...
                but this was not the best of the best from the Nation coming together to find out who's the best...
                No... This is... http://mlb.mlb.com/youthmajors/index.jsp
                I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                  Fraud? What are you talking about?
                  Being a "National" champion... How is that even possible at this age??? These, often for profit, organizers fill these parents with garbage...

                  Hey, we did the whole travel ball/ tournament thing.... But we did it for fun and a weekend away. It seems that more and more parents feels it's a necessity in order to progress in the game.

                  Look at how many more of these foolish tournaments we now have when compared to 20-30 years ago... All selling it to parents as a "necessity" to progress. Then take that number and compare it to how many more Americans are playing at the MLB level compared to 20-30 years ago. It's disproportionate.
                  "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                  - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                  Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                    This might get it closer to a real "national" championship, but at these ages it's still impossible... Hell the NCAA has a hard time with it.

                    "It's all about the kids," said Eddie Einhorn, Interim Executive Director of the MYBA. "We are about inclusion, participation and competition....." and making money for our sponsors... Sorry for being so cynical.
                    "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                    - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In Arizona we have the USSSA "Winter Nationals" every December. We always laughed because it was basically the same teams from AZ that we'd play in any other local tournament. There may be a handful of teams from CA or even MN, but it's far from a "National" tournament. If it was, then my son played on the second best 10U team in the country a few years ago.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                        This might get it closer to a real "national" championship, but at these ages it's still impossible... Hell the NCAA has a hard time with it.
                        If something's better than anything else out there, you have to give it its due... This is a TREMENDOUS event... Is it perfect? Of course not... What is?

                        The USSSA Elite 32 at Disney might have most of the best youth teams assembled in one place at one time every year...
                        I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                          If something's better than anything else out there, you have to give it its due... This is a TREMENDOUS event... Is it perfect? Of course not... What is?

                          The USSSA Elite 32 at Disney might have most of the best youth teams assembled in one place at one time every year...
                          I feel any model that promotes a world, or national championship, at that age is wrong.... They are simply the best at that tourney, nothing less, nothing more. Any team/family that attended as part of a 1 week Disney trip is a great thing to do as a family - and can be a lot of fun.... and for the most part this is how these tourneys began years ago.

                          The USSSA still offers a "World Series" 5U tournament... These are Tee ballers! They are only a few years removed from diapers and yet these organizations promote them as being the best in the world. http://www.usssabaseball.org/2011_world_series.htm

                          Hell, they even have "National Rankings for 5U" http://www.usssa.com/sports/Rank1.asp Are you kidding me??? A nationally ranked team at five???!!

                          In many ways I see this no different than other issues we have addressed in our society. They only way we stopped physically cruel parents from beating their children was to pass laws preventing it. Most rational people recognized we had a major problem with adults beating children who could not defend themselves. These beatings had life-long irreversable affects.

                          While most of us keep the whole "National Champion" thing in perspective, there are parents who use these tourneys as fodder to further mentally and psychologically abuse their children (often times unknowingly), by using age-inappropriate comparisons up to which they can never live.

                          Again Jay Weaver had a great article this month about all this...
                          "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                          - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yeah, I am not getting the original posters intent. So what? Who cares if you are called a National Champ or not? Did your team play on nice fields with good umps? Were the teams that you played against of equal/comparable competition? Did the kids and parents have fun? That is all that matters. In my neck of the woods, I know of a World Series tournament that was played a few weeks back and a team I know very well won the tournament. I looked at the field of participants and realized that many of the local tournaments had just as strong of a field and the overall win (while very neat) wasn't a true "World Series" type accomplishment. Do you know who cared about that information? NO ONE. The team that won and the kids that won had a stinking blast. These are memories they will hold for a lifetime. Who cares if they are actually the best team in a particular state or region.

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                            • #15
                              I tried to get a link, but for some reason I could not get one...
                              Coach, I hope you are OK with me posting here. Send me a PM if a problem...

                              THIS FROM COACH WEAVER (NECC): This applies to older players, but carries the same message. I know his dad agreed with this.
                              Nice piece Jay.

                              NECC Tip of the Month:


                              "Buyer Beware - College and Professional Recruiting Services Aren't Always What They Seem"

                              It seems like almost every year, I get a call from someone looking for a list of our college eligible and prospective professional players and their contact information. Having dealt with these lower-than-telemarketing-scum in the past, I pretend to listen to their pitch.

                              For entertainment purposes I try to let them speak for more than 30 seconds before I begin to laugh historically or read them the riot act about how they are destroying the lives of the players who buy into their complete nonsense.

                              You see, most of the legitimate services out there, will outline exactly how they intend to promote your athlete. What materials, if any, they intend to send to coaches in an effort to entice them to come see your player in real life and they will wait for you to come to them.

                              Some services, however, are very vague in what they actually provide and simply mask their predatory nature by dropping a lot of big names and their contact information, and by throwing lofty promises at you, as if to say "look who I can put you in touch with." The truth of the matter is that very few of these services actually have your player's best interest at heart. Most want one thing - your money, and as much of it as you are willing to part with to see your kid realize their lofty dreams and aspirations. Sometimes the truth of the matter is incredibly disturbing. Very often they bought a book of contact information or did some serious mining of e-mail databases online and now they are trying to get you to pay for that FREE information.

                              In the baseball world, many people think that if you have the contact information for someone inside the game, a scout like myself perhaps, that you have a leg up on someone who doesn't have that information. That is flat out wrong! Although, some players can fall through the cracks on occasion, trust me when I say that most of the time, if you are truly good enough, someone will hear about your kid. Whether it is by watching their HS or college team play, getting a call from a coach at one of those schools, or at one of the MLB Scouting Bureau tryouts held around the country. Again, someone will find them. It is really as simple as that.

                              As far as college recruitment goes. If the service you're paying for doesn't provide your son with a platform to actually showcase himself in front of a college coach in person, it's not worth it. Even then, there are only a few who do a good job of this (read: Perfect Game).

                              In the softball world, the recruiting system is built on tournaments and college instructional camps. It is more about playing for the right travel team in the Summer and the Fall and playing in the right showcase tournaments than it is about being able to get in contact with a coach who has never seen you play. Contact information helps, as you are your own best marketing tool, but ultimately, how your daughter performs in those tournaments where college coaches congregate will matter a whole lot more than whether or not you are well spoken about your daughter's talents on the phone.

                              Parents and coaches, if a college coach has not seen your player in person, or at the very least on a recruiting video (which would then need to entice the coach to actually go see your player play live), those coaches aren't interested in your son or daughter. The printout of their stats may look great, but it doesn't matter if a coach hasn't seen your player actually play. That being said, getting in contact with those coaches can be beneficial, as they may not have been aware that your son or daughter was interested in their school. Again all of the information you will ever need to get in contact with those coaches and let them know where they can see your player showcasing their skills is readily available on the school's website.

                              Anyone who asks you to pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars simply for a list of phone numbers or e-mail addresses that can be found either by searching online or buying Baseball America's yearly directory at your local Barnes and Nobles is not someone whom you should ever trust to find your player a real opportunity beyond HS.

                              My father used to always say that just because you've left the cage or field, it doesn't mean you are no longer our student. As such, we do everything we possibly can to market our students in an honest and unbiased way. If you are good enough to play at a certain level. We'll tell you. If you aren't, we will tell you. If you aren't satisfied with our analysis, we'll put you in touch with a coach at that level, who's job it is to also give you an unbiased and honest answer. Anyone who sells the promise of a dream based on the useless contact information of coaches and scouts that they don't know is a leach.

                              Parents, when searching for potential recruiting services/showcases, you have to ask yourself a few questions. One, does this service have the ability to put my child in front of an actual coach? If the answer is no, it isn't worth your time or your money. Two, are they even hinting that an athletic scholarship is attainable simply by using their service? If the answer is yes, it isn't worth your time or money. Three (for the guys), are they selling themselves as a liaison between your son and potential professional opportunities? It isn't worth it! Those organizations make money by finding players themselves who can actually play at that level. Again, if a player is good enough, someone will find him.

                              The key is being meticulous in your research of these services to find our who's interest they have in mind with what they are offering. What's the old saying? "If it looks like it is too good to be true, it probably is."

                              Thanks for reading this month's Tip of the Month!

                              From behind the mask,

                              Jay Weaver

                              Director of Operations

                              NECC
                              "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                              - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                              Comment

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