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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
    The USSSA still offers a "World Series" 5U tournament... These are Tee ballers! They are only a few years removed from diapers and yet these organizations promote them as being the best in the world. http://www.usssabaseball.org/2011_world_series.htm

    Hell, they even have "National Rankings for 5U" http://www.usssa.com/sports/Rank1.asp Are you kidding me??? A nationally ranked team at five???!!
    I totally agree, that's absolutely crazy...

    I was talking about 10U - 12U... Like the NYBC, and keeping with the OP...

    At the local batting cage, the proprietor put this up on his bulletin board to point out the insanity of just what you are talking about... It's both pretty comical and a sad statement as well...

    Last edited by Bolts-Baseball; 08-01-2012, 06:56 AM.
    I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by crazyhawk View Post
      Yeah, I am not getting the original posters intent. So what? Who cares if you are called a National Champ or not? Did your team play on nice fields with good umps? Were the teams that you played against of equal/comparable competition? Did the kids and parents have fun? That is all that matters. In my neck of the woods, I know of a World Series tournament that was played a few weeks back and a team I know very well won the tournament. I looked at the field of participants and realized that many of the local tournaments had just as strong of a field and the overall win (while very neat) wasn't a true "World Series" type accomplishment. Do you know who cared about that information? NO ONE. The team that won and the kids that won had a stinking blast. These are memories they will hold for a lifetime. Who cares if they are actually the best team in a particular state or region.
      Crazy I agree, when kept in perspective... I wrote:
      Any team/family that attended as part of a 1 week Disney trip is a great thing to do as a family - and can be a lot of fun....
      The problem as I see it is this has become the norm for young children who enjoy the game and not the more developmentally healthier - playing ball unsupervised in the field next to the barn/parking lot/street with your buddies.
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
        I totally agree, that's absolutely crazy...

        I was talking about 10 year old - 12 year old... And keeping with the OP...

        At the local batting cage, the proprietor put this up on his bulletin board to point out the insanity of just what you are talking about... It's both pretty comical and a sad statement as well...



        The sad part is ---- I'll bet he got calls.
        "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
        - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
          The sad part is ---- I'll bet he got calls.
          No, he actually didn't... But he did get a few laughs... So I guess that's a small "thumb's up" for the locals here... "HALL AND OATES", c'mon... LOL!
          I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
            No, he actually didn't... So I guess that's a small "thumb's up" for the locals here...
            Agree .
            "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
            - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

            Comment


            • #21
              My son is particpating in his first "National" tournament next week; the USSSA All-State Tournament in Indianapolis. He has been asked to play for the 11U Texas team with teammates coming from Austin, Corpus, Houston, and Dallas. So long as this was something he wanted to do, it could be great for him; a real good experience and confidence boost. I have noticed that these sorts of milestones motivate him to work harder and help his local coaches gain more credibility (in his mind). I do not believe this tournament will make OR break him as a player or as a young man, but I think he will remember this the rest of his life. Why all the vitrol...am I missing a reason this could only be a good experience? (Sorry for the naivity)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                What state was this in...?
                What brand name...? USSSA? AAU? Super Series? NABF? AABC?
                Triple Crown

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                  If something's better than anything else out there, you have to give it its due... This is a TREMENDOUS event... Is it perfect? Of course not... What is?

                  The USSSA Elite 32 at Disney might have most of the best youth teams assembled in one place at one time every year...
                  Local kid was in that tourney. Team finished 2nd. Were 72-10 overall.

                  I'm all for looking at the facts and letting the conclusion come by itself.

                  We could look at teams getting 10-runned in the Little League World Series and use that to make a judgement about Little League. We could look at the format where an American team has to be in the finals and question whether the two best teams really get to play each other, and on and on.

                  It's a name only for the tournament.

                  Everyone is always pointing out the flaws and lunacy in everything. That's fine, provided we use the same standard for all things.

                  Lots of activities throw "Nationals" on something if it includes teams/participants from different states.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by crazyhawk View Post
                    Yeah, I am not getting the original posters intent. So what? Who cares if you are called a National Champ or not? Did your team play on nice fields with good umps? Were the teams that you played against of equal/comparable competition? Did the kids and parents have fun? That is all that matters. In my neck of the woods, I know of a World Series tournament that was played a few weeks back and a team I know very well won the tournament. I looked at the field of participants and realized that many of the local tournaments had just as strong of a field and the overall win (while very neat) wasn't a true "World Series" type accomplishment. Do you know who cared about that information? NO ONE. The team that won and the kids that won had a stinking blast. These are memories they will hold for a lifetime. Who cares if they are actually the best team in a particular state or region.
                    We went 2-2 and had a great time. I guess it is a little personal in regards to the National Champs issue. The local team that won a "National Championship" has branded the information at all the local baseball facilities. They decided to pull the kids out of the local leagues this year and just play travel. Maybe it's just me, but they make me feel our baseball is inferior and I started to buy into it. I started to feel like these 12 kids are the kids that my son will be fighting for High School spots and they had an advantage by playing up in higher competition.

                    I don't buy it anymore and have a better understanding of the experience on this sight regarding not needing to play travel as a youth. Other than the right here right now memories there is no baseball benefit of these youth tourneys.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by real green View Post
                      We went 2-2 and had a great time. I guess it is a little personal in regards to the National Champs issue. The local team that won a "National Championship" has branded the information at all the local baseball facilities. They decided to pull the kids out of the local leagues this year and just play travel. Maybe it's just me, but they make me feel our baseball is inferior and I started to buy into it. I started to feel like these 12 kids are the kids that my son will be fighting for High School spots and they had an advantage by playing up in higher competition.

                      I don't buy it anymore and have a better understanding of the experience on this sight regarding not needing to play travel as a youth. Other than the right here right now memories there is no baseball benefit of these youth tourneys.
                      My community is celebrating 3 district championships (LL), 2 sectional championships, and 1 state championship banner all in this summer.

                      Should we add an asterisk to it explaining "Pssst, the best players in most communities don't play Little League, but ours do." as a way of letting people know what aspect of the banners is "legit" and what portion of it may not have been?

                      Your commentary doesn't sound very objective. I agree with you more than I don't, but the truth is your expectation on the "travel players" may be too high. Just because they aren;t as good as you think they should be doesn;t mean they are not significantly better than the "next 12".

                      My Cardinals won the world series last year. Their pitchers issued walks, their fielders made errors, their runners were picked off base, and their batters struck out.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by real green View Post
                        Triple Crown
                        We actually won the Florida State 13u Triple Crown last year... I thought it was a GREAT tournament. The state finals were held at the Astros spring training facility.

                        To get into that we had to win a regional tournament in Jacksonville. There were some good teams, and not so good teams. We won the championship game in the bottom of the 8th (extra inning)... My son had a great game (something I'll remember, forever) he went 4-for-4 with a HR, 2 singles, and a triple (to leadoff that last inning), drove in 5 of our 6 runs and scored the winning run... I apologize for the self-promotion there...

                        We then moved on and played in the 13u National in Myrtle Beach last year actually... There were 64 teams I believe... We ended up finishing 3rd... Got knocked out by SBA CANES out of North Carolina... They were LEGIT. They went on to win the AAU 13u National Championship at Disney as well...

                        The Myrtle Beach setting was great for a week-long tournament, lot's of great fun and lot's to do during down-time as well... If you go, think about staying at the KOA, they have cabins and the kids have a blast.
                        Last edited by Bolts-Baseball; 08-01-2012, 10:10 AM.
                        I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
                          My community is celebrating 3 district championships (LL), 2 sectional championships, and 1 state championship banner all in this summer.

                          Should we add an asterisk to it explaining "Pssst, the best players in most communities don't play Little League, but ours do." as a way of letting people know what aspect of the banners is "legit" and what portion of it may not have been?

                          Your commentary doesn't sound very objective. I agree with you more than I don't, but the truth is your expectation on the "travel players" may be too high. Just because they aren;t as good as you think they should be doesn;t mean they are not significantly better than the "next 12".

                          My Cardinals won the world series last year. Their pitchers issued walks, their fielders made errors, their runners were picked off base, and their batters struck out.
                          Interesting prespective regarding LL titles. We are expected to win TOC simply because we are a league of 800 compared to leagues of less than 300. LL WS champions have to win a lot of games to come out on top. The "lesser than" leagues are weeded out in the early rounds.

                          A lot of chance comes into these titles. Whether LLWS or some other travel championship. Heck even some of these weekend tourneys. We all know that one team can dominate a game and still lose.

                          The great thing about the LLWS is the barriers of entry are very difficult which in my opinion makes the accomplishment very special. I think with a deep check book I could put together a very dominate travel team. If my goal was to make it into the "Elite 32" or similar event I could do it in a matter of a few years. That's not possible with the LLWS.

                          While I am sure there will be a few 12u teams that would dominate the LLWS champions, the list would be short and the players would not all be from the same community.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                            We actually won the Florida State 13u Triple Crown last year... I thought it was a GREAT tournament. The state finals were held at the Astros spring training facility.

                            To get into that we had to win a regional tournament in Jacksonville. There were some good teams, and not so good teams. We won the championship game in the bottom of the 8th (extra inning)... My son had a great game (something I'll remember, forever) he went 4-for-4 with a HR, 2 singles, and a triple (to leadoff that last inning), drove in 5 of our 6 runs and scored the winning run... I apologize for the self-promotion there...

                            We then moved on and played in the 13u National in Myrtle Beach last year actually... There were 64 teams I believe... We ended up finishing 3rd... Got knocked out by SBA CANES out of North Carolina... They were LEGIT. They went on to win the AAU 13u National Championship at Disney as well...

                            The Myrtle Beach setting was great for a week-long tournament, lot's of great fun and lot's to do during down-time as well... If you go, think about staying at the KOA, they have cabins and the kids have a blast.
                            It was fun and well organized. Staff was friendly and location was perfect. Fields were OK. I built it up to be more than it was. It was just 10U baseball.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
                              Local kid was in that tourney. Team finished 2nd. Were 72-10 overall.
                              82 games??
                              "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
                              - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
                                82 games??
                                You're preaching to the choir on that one. Like many elite teams, he has teammates from multiple states, and they pretty much just get together for games.

                                I have no idea how the families do it. We played 52 total games this year including 20 from LL Minors, 20 10U Travel ball games, 12 LL All-Star Games. Since we're in Illinois it was all done from May - July, and we felt like we were at a different ballfield every day. At least with TB when you travel somewhere you're going to play 2-3 games in a day. With the LL Al-Stars Sectionals we were driving 2 hours one way for a single 1-hour 15-minute game. When we lost in sectionals my thoughts were "Crud, we lost ... oh well, at least we don't have to drive 4 hours each of the next 3 days". Our 11yo's just lost in state and our 12 yo's are in the Great lakes regional starting this week (also played Cooperstown earlier this year). They've played a similar number of games, have done very well, have had some high quality experiences ... but still played a lot of games.

                                There are so many organizations and divisions now that having "champions" is like boxing having a USBA Intercontinental Super bantamweight champion. It's a champion, but just one of 6-8 champions at that weight division among various organizations.

                                I've been consistent in my feeling that these high stakes games are not always appropriate for the age. The nature of baseball is that more games are "lost" than there are games that are won, so some 10-12yo kid is going to be the goat for his team in a national or championship event. I don;t think that's fair for the age ... especially when the games are televised or families have traveled hours and hours and paid hundreds of dollars for the events.

                                When we talk about appropriateness, we're very often looking at the physical toll it takes on pitching arms, but one of my main concerns is the mental influence. Kids at these ages are just developing some confidence and a little ability to handle and overcome adversity. I think we've talked about it some in regards to catchers and asking what kid wants to be responsible for half of the runs his team gives up?

                                The documentary on the Washington team that won the WS in the early 80s and how it affected the "star" Corey Webster, particularly the following year when adults were having a lot of fun heckling him about his weight and gloating when their kids' team beat "the superstar". When I look at 10-12yo kids, I see physical bodies that can very often handle the physical requirements of these events, but who are emotionally more like 8yo's, which is typical of boys.

                                Like I said previously, I'm almost 40 and have a buddy (who has since committed suicide) that will be forever known as the kid that hit a walk-off grand slam to win All-Star districts when he was 12.

                                I've read a lot posts here from the older guys whose kids have been through it all, and I've taken it to heart. I've/We've taken a big step back in regards to travel baseball and are looking to play 12 TB games next year along with LL. We also have more and more dads wanting to expand TB to 9U and play more games. I think this is a lesson that dads have to learn through their own experience, because the nature is to think [1] it'll be different with us, and [2] I don;t want my kid slipping behind.

                                I understand that my kid is good because of physical gifts and because we practice a lot together, not because he plays LL, TB, or any other organization. We could take a year off from organized ball and just work individually and he would likely benefit from that greatly. We've considered that, but I know he really enjoys playing games and being with friends and a lot of his self-confidence and "status" comes from being very good at baseball.

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