Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

First Big Name Organized Tourney Review

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by real green View Post
    It was fun and well organized. Staff was friendly and location was perfect. Fields were OK. I built it up to be more than it was. It was just 10U baseball.
    That was my experience this summer as well.

    I expected to see 10yo playing Varsity quality baseball ... and what I saw were just good 10yo's playing baseball like good 10yo's.

    I would LOVE to have video from my All-Star games at 10, so that I could visually see how we really performed rather than how I "remember" us performing.

    10 year olds are still 10 year olds. We'd have a kid hit one off the fence, and then forget to lead off once he was on base. 10 year olds.

    The toughest thing for the adults at this age is to not use their kid's "best game" as the new expectation.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
      You're preaching to the choir on that one. Like many elite teams, he has teammates from multiple states, and they pretty much just get together for games.

      I have no idea how the families do it. We played 52 total games this year including 20 from LL Minors, 20 10U Travel ball games, 12 LL All-Star Games. Since we're in Illinois it was all done from May - July, and we felt like we were at a different ballfield every day. At least with TB when you travel somewhere you're going to play 2-3 games in a day. With the LL Al-Stars Sectionals we were driving 2 hours one way for a single 1-hour 15-minute game. When we lost in sectionals my thoughts were "Crud, we lost ... oh well, at least we don't have to drive 4 hours each of the next 3 days". Our 11yo's just lost in state and our 12 yo's are in the Great lakes regional starting this week (also played Cooperstown earlier this year). They've played a similar number of games, have done very well, have had some high quality experiences ... but still played a lot of games.

      There are so many organizations and divisions now that having "champions" is like boxing having a USBA Intercontinental Super bantamweight champion. It's a champion, but just one of 6-8 champions at that weight division among various organizations.

      I've been consistent in my feeling that these high stakes games are not always appropriate for the age. The nature of baseball is that more games are "lost" than there are games that are won, so some 10-12yo kid is going to be the goat for his team in a national or championship event. I don;t think that's fair for the age ... especially when the games are televised or families have traveled hours and hours and paid hundreds of dollars for the events.

      When we talk about appropriateness, we're very often looking at the physical toll it takes on pitching arms, but one of my main concerns is the mental influence. Kids at these ages are just developing some confidence and a little ability to handle and overcome adversity. I think we've talked about it some in regards to catchers and asking what kid wants to be responsible for half of the runs his team gives up?

      The documentary on the Washington team that won the WS in the early 80s and how it affected the "star" Corey Webster, particularly the following year when adults were having a lot of fun heckling him about his weight and gloating when their kids' team beat "the superstar". When I look at 10-12yo kids, I see physical bodies that can very often handle the physical requirements of these events, but who are emotionally more like 8yo's, which is typical of boys.

      Like I said previously, I'm almost 40 and have a buddy (who has since committed suicide) that will be forever known as the kid that hit a walk-off grand slam to win All-Star districts when he was 12.

      I've read a lot posts here from the older guys whose kids have been through it all, and I've taken it to heart. I've/We've taken a big step back in regards to travel baseball and are looking to play 12 TB games next year along with LL. We also have more and more dads wanting to expand TB to 9U and play more games. I think this is a lesson that dads have to learn through their own experience, because the nature is to think [1] it'll be different with us, and [2] I don;t want my kid slipping behind.

      I understand that my kid is good because of physical gifts and because we practice a lot together, not because he plays LL, TB, or any other organization. We could take a year off from organized ball and just work individually and he would likely benefit from that greatly. We've considered that, but I know he really enjoys playing games and being with friends and a lot of his self-confidence and "status" comes from being very good at baseball.
      I'd give you a hug if I could! A parent that gets it!
      "He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
      - John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by azmatsfan View Post
        In Arizona we have the USSSA "Winter Nationals" every December. We always laughed because it was basically the same teams from AZ that we'd play in any other local tournament. There may be a handful of teams from CA or even MN, but it's far from a "National" tournament. If it was, then my son played on the second best 10U team in the country a few years ago.
        Az,

        Maybe it's just your age group (your kid was 13's this season?), because we attend this every year from Colorado and the field is amazing. Last year's 12's included the SC Outlaws teams, LV Hawks, San Diego Show, El Paso Bombers, Team Phenom, and Grant Baseball Academy among others. I didn't pay attention much to the 13's, but I do know the 11's, outside of Sandlot and the Oakley Stingrays, wasn't all that powerful and was much more like you described (AZ heavy).

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
          82 games??
          16 to 20 weekends. 5-7 months with one weekend off per month. That's a lot of ball.

          82/4 games per tourney = 20.5 tournaments
          82/5 games per tourney = 16.4 tournaments

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
            That was my experience this summer as well.

            I expected to see 10yo playing Varsity quality baseball ... and what I saw were just good 10yo's playing baseball like good 10yo's.

            I would LOVE to have video from my All-Star games at 10, so that I could visually see how we really performed rather than how I "remember" us performing.

            10 year olds are still 10 year olds. We'd have a kid hit one off the fence, and then forget to lead off once he was on base. 10 year olds.

            The toughest thing for the adults at this age is to not use their kid's "best game" as the new expectation.
            Exactly!!!!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Jake Patterson View Post
              I'd give you a hug if I could! A parent that gets it!
              So, he gets 'it' (and a hug too ) because he's gonna cut his kid's travel-ball games by 8-games...?

              I've been consistent in my feeling that these high stakes games are not always appropriate for the age. The nature of baseball is that more games are "lost" than there are games that are won, so some 10-12yo kid is going to be the goat for his team in a national or championship event. I don't think that's fair for the age... especially when the games are televised or families have traveled hours and hours and paid hundreds of dollars for the events.

              But what if the kid who lost just had a bad day, and he was one of the reasons the team got there in the first place...? So in your Shangri-La, no Little League World Series, no NYBC tournament, no televised games where kids can possibly lose... Or is it ANY games where kids can lose...?

              Honestly, sorry to hear about your loss of a friend, but he was a youth baseball success "walk-off grand slam to win All-Star districts when he was 12"...

              If I'm reading correctly win or lose, you aren't comfortable with the emphasis and attention placed on youth baseball... Would that be a fair assessment?
              I don't like my balls to smell like pickles.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by real green View Post
                Interesting prespective regarding LL titles. We are expected to win TOC simply because we are a league of 800 compared to leagues of less than 300. LL WS champions have to win a lot of games to come out on top. The "lesser than" leagues are weeded out in the early rounds.

                A lot of chance comes into these titles. Whether LLWS or some other travel championship. Heck even some of these weekend tourneys. We all know that one team can dominate a game and still lose.

                The great thing about the LLWS is the barriers of entry are very difficult which in my opinion makes the accomplishment very special. I think with a deep check book I could put together a very dominate travel team. If my goal was to make it into the "Elite 32" or similar event I could do it in a matter of a few years. That's not possible with the LLWS.

                While I am sure there will be a few 12u teams that would dominate the LLWS champions, the list would be short and the players would not all be from the same community.
                It is interesting CircleChange and you bring this up. My LL-Juniors (13-14) All-Star team won Districts, Sections and made it to the Championship game of Divisions (one game away from Western Regionals in Washington!). Best we have every done in our community...ever.

                By the time we made it to the end of Sections and into Division, the other teams and tournament officials were surprised we only had 7 of our players play travel ball before and all on different teams. Apparently, many of the other teams (not all) that made it that far were made up of year round travel ball players who played together or split up among 2 TB teams. We were told that the team that beat us in the Division championship was a team that was all year round TB players playing on the same team in TB tourneys. I don't know if it that is factual though.

                On a side note - we had 11 players on our team. 7 of them had played TB throughout the last couple of years. It was extremely evident that the other 4 had not played TB. They all played well, but the 7 seemed to have a better "view" of the game.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by jbolt_2000 View Post
                  It is interesting CircleChange and you bring this up. My LL-Juniors (13-14) All-Star team won Districts, Sections and made it to the Championship game of Divisions (one game away from Western Regionals in Washington!). Best we have every done in our community...ever.

                  By the time we made it to the end of Sections and into Division, the other teams and tournament officials were surprised we only had 7 of our players play travel ball before and all on different teams. Apparently, many of the other teams (not all) that made it that far were made up of year round travel ball players who played together or split up among 2 TB teams. We were told that the team that beat us in the Division championship was a team that was all year round TB players playing on the same team in TB tourneys. I don't know if it that is factual though.

                  On a side note - we had 11 players on our team. 7 of them had played TB throughout the last couple of years. It was extremely evident that the other 4 had not played TB. They all played well, but the 7 seemed to have a better "view" of the game.
                  Congrats on the run! Many of the LL All Stars teams are composed of travelball teams that play year around. The difference is the boundry requirments LL creates. The very best travelball teams are compose of players from all over even out of state. While LL teams have to stay within the boundries of their league.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Roothog66 View Post
                    Az,

                    Maybe it's just your age group (your kid was 13's this season?), because we attend this every year from Colorado and the field is amazing. Last year's 12's included the SC Outlaws teams, LV Hawks, San Diego Show, El Paso Bombers, Team Phenom, and Grant Baseball Academy among others. I didn't pay attention much to the 13's, but I do know the 11's, outside of Sandlot and the Oakley Stingrays, wasn't all that powerful and was much more like you described (AZ heavy).
                    This was probably 2008 if my math is right. And at 10U you're not going to get too many teams traveling in from out of state. It is a great tournament. Our boys, who usually played AAA, had a good week that year and qualified for the Major division and finished 2nd. We have since joked that the team was the second best team in the country due to the word "Nationals" in the title. Along the same lines a baseball dad we know used to brag his son's team was the #3 team in the state of Arizona. We could never figure out how he came to this conclusion until we found out his team came in third place out of 5 teams in a regular local weekend tournament that just called itself a "State Tournament".

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bolts-Baseball View Post
                      So, he gets 'it' (and a hug too ) because he's gonna cut his kid's travel-ball games by 8-games...?
                      This requires more explanation. It's a combination of things ... for us it's not only cutting the games by 8, but scheduling local DH's instead of going to $450 tournaments, where we play 4 games in 2 days. This would be different than the other options of playing what we did this year, or more realistically looking to go travel only and playing in more tournaments and more high stakes games.

                      But what if the kid who lost just had a bad day, and he was one of the reasons the team got there in the first place...? So in your Shangri-La, no Little League World Series, no NYBC tournament, no televised games where kids can possibly lose... Or is it ANY games where kids can lose...?
                      As the parent of a kid who is often responsible for the outcome of the game, there's pros and cons. On one hand, he's a "hero" because he threw a shutout in a district championship elimination game. In another game, he's the "goat" because he had an off day. What I am saying is that at age 10, he shouldn't really be playing in very many games where he's the hero or goat for a whole section of the community. There's enough pressure on kids at this age just to win in their local games. No 10yo needs to be Joe Carter or Bill Buckner for their area, they aren't adults that are equipped to handle local celebrity or being infamous. At age 12, I think a case could be made that high stakes games might be more appropriate. But, by then we're often dealing with kids that have experienced quite a bit in baseball and are at puberty or past it.

                      Honestly, sorry to hear about your loss of a friend, but he was a youth baseball success "walk-off grand slam to win All-Star districts when he was 12"...
                      I should have left out the suicide thing. It was drug-habit related and had little to nothing to do with baseball. But, whenever anyone mentions his name, the first thing that gets brought up is what he did at age 12.

                      If I'm reading correctly win or lose, you aren't comfortable with the emphasis and attention placed on youth baseball... Would that be a fair assessment?
                      Kids need to experience some emphasis, and need to succeed/fail when the price tag is small so they can be better equipped to handle it when the price tag is big. But, I am uncomfortable with kids being exposed to so much emphasis at increasingly younger ages. FWIW, I feel the same about any national level competition for this age, whether it's sports, music, etc.

                      I think it's reasonable to question whether a kid should win/lose any national championship at age 10, when addressing how well equipped they are to handle the result ... as well as the adults in their lives. So many attribute success/failure at that age and project it to be success/failure 10 years from now.

                      We're talking about an age group where it's not uncommon to see tears after a 2 strikeout game. IMHO, that's natural and appropriate for a regular game and you'd like to see progress as the season continues. Throwing the same kid into a national tournament where the teams have paid hundreds of dollars, traveled numerous hours, and having him go through normal baseball experiences in front of much larger crowds and expectations is likely too much .... even, perhaps especially, if they are the "hero".

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Big name tournaments? My USSSA travel teams were invited to sixteen USSSA World Series every year. They would also get invited to every AAU, Triple Corwn, CABA and any other organizations multiple World Series. The only one we would have attended is the Top 24 (think it's 32 now) USSSA WS in Orlando when the team was 14U (came in 3rd of 32 in region). At 16U all the players were fifteen. We weren't going to contend for our region (came in 8th of 32).

                        Comment

                        Ad Widget

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X