Reflecting back!

[real green]

It's unbelievable how much gains ocurr from year to year. Granted my son is only playing 10u, but the quality of ball from today compared to just last year is impressive.

When does the growth in performance begin to slow down?

He was drafted up into Major LL for rec ball and struggled to keep up with the 11 and 12's. His play during 10u All Stars and 10u tournaments he has been impressive. Our last tourney is this weekend. He is looking forward to the challenge of the Majors come spring.

During the rec season we started to wonder if it was the right decission to let him play up. It was hard on his confidence to say the least. Minors are 9-11 and Majors are 10-12. While he was very proud of making the Majors, he would have dominated in the Minors and would have had more fun.

Even looking back on the struggles, I am not sure what I would recommend for others in the same situation. The jump into Majors is tough for both 10's and 11's. We'll find out next year if he is through his adjustment period. Should be interesting.

[Dirtberry]

"When does the growth in performance begin to slow down?"

When they start to play more games than practice!!!

[Jake Patterson]

It's unbelievable how much gains ocurr from year to year. Granted my son is only playing 10u, but the quality of ball from today compared to just last year is impressive.

When does the growth in performance begin to slow down?

He was drafted up into Major LL for rec ball and struggled to keep up with the 11 and 12's. His play during 10u All Stars and 10u tournaments he has been impressive. Our last tourney is this weekend. He is looking forward to the challenge of the Majors come spring.

During the rec season we started to wonder if it was the right decission to let him play up. It was hard on his confidence to say the least. Minors are 9-11 and Majors are 10-12. While he was very proud of making the Majors, he would have dominated in the Minors and would have had more fun.

Even looking back on the struggles, I am not sure what I would recommend for others in the same situation. The jump into Majors is tough for both 10's and 11's. We'll find out next year if he is through his adjustment period. Should be interesting.

Improvement at this age can be sporatic and difficult to use to determine future growth and expectations... I have seen great 10/11 year olds who seemed to be on an incredible improvement track go backwards once they were post-pubescent and I've seen real bad-body players become exceptional players at 15/16. the point is... don't place too much emphasis on improvement... your job at this age is to help your son build a love for the game... whether he plays past 15 or not

[Jake Patterson]

When they start to play more games than practice!!!

Agree .

[rodnok1]

I'm not sure what people expect when they play their kids up an age level. I'm sure it's a prestige thing to be able to say they play up, but for who the parents or players? Does it get them any further along in the long run? Granted the level of play is better(not always) and that can def help a player by playing harder teams. While a kid may be physically able to do it, they might not be mentally. Good post Real Green...

[DerekD]

This:



is on the way.

[CircleChange11]

When does the growth in performance begin to slow down?

This is an interesting question. Up until this year my son has been the 'Babe Ruth' of his age group, best hitter and best pitcher. By age 3 he was hitting pitched balls, and at age 5 he was following me everywhere (coaching HS and JH) as the bat boy and taking BP and grounders after our practices.

So, in TB and 7-8 yo league, he was dominant due to the amount of training combined with good size and natural ability.

The reality is that each year he will "lose ground" to his peers simply because he can't keep up the "pace" of the training disparity and he won't keep having the size advantage in the same amounts.

My guess is that performance goes hand in hand with each little growth spurt and/or increase in training time and quality.

This year he was still the best pitcher, but there were some kids that passed him up in hitting ... as they grew and could now hit the ball where he does. He handled it fine, which was a relief to me. He's also not a fast runner and played in an arena (10U TB) where speed is king.

He was drafted up into Major LL for rec ball and struggled to keep up with the 11 and 12's. His play during 10u All Stars and 10u tournaments he has been impressive. Our last tourney is this weekend. He is looking forward to the challenge of the Majors come spring.

We're in the exact opposite situation. Our LL has a hometown rule where kids have to play in the league determined by age. LL Minors is 9-10, LL Majors is 11-12. His birthday is 6 days after the cutoff, so every other year he's playing in a league where he really doesn't belong. It's as fun as no-hitters and 11 pitch innings can be. In other words, it's fun up to a point, and IMO it stunts the development of everyone else (and himself). He played 10U as a 9yo and did well, very well for a 9.

During the rec season we started to wonder if it was the right decission to let him play up. It was hard on his confidence to say the least. Minors are 9-11 and Majors are 10-12. While he was very proud of making the Majors, he would have dominated in the Minors and would have had more fun.

A big challenge this year was dealing with the slower pitchers in LL Minors. We'd play travel games on the weekends and then LL Minors during the week, and the difference in timing was significant ... so significant that he (unconsciously) started using some poor mechanics in order to slow his bat down for LL Minors and it wasn't until the end of the season that we got that worked out. It wasn't simply "tee off" on the slower pitchers but more like "I never get a strike" and "even when I do I just hit it off the cap/end of the bat". Staying back is much more difficult for a 10yo than it is a 16yo, and it's difficult at every age.

I'm not sure how it is for every kid, but for us I'd much rather face the increased speed of the 11-12 than the slower speed of the 9-10 (and much less control). I say this because he does better against the faster pitchers. Against the better LL AS teams where the pitchers were faster it was evident which 10yo's preferred the faster pitchers and which ones were making a living off 3 hit games against the slower guys.

Even looking back on the struggles, I am not sure what I would recommend for others in the same situation. The jump into Majors is tough for both 10's and 11's. We'll find out next year if he is through his adjustment period. Should be interesting.

I think it depends A LOT on the kid and I think it should be on a case-by-case basis. In our situation, the kids that moved up to 11-12 are the kids that are in his grade and kids that he's played with the most. During the years we "stay down" (so to speak), he has a few mates that have May-July birthdays that he gets to play against, but not with because they're all rated in the top X of the players and no one team can have more than 1 top X player (even if they're both coach's kids). So, each year we get a new group of teammates that are from the grade below. It is what it is, nothing worth going crazy about, but I would like the league to examine the policy of not ever letting anyone play up, even if their birthday is 6 days after the cutoff. The fear is that the slippery slope will see some dad try and get their just turned 9yo to play in the 11-12 league, and it works out for the league in LLAS, when you have kids that have "just the right birthday" to be a force in the younger leagues.

Next year we'll be in the 11-12 league and I'm anticipating getting back into the "sweet spot" with the pace of the game and speed of the pitching and more batters making contact. The following year, when he's 12 (a week from being 13) I told him we'll see where he's at in regards to puberty and performance as to whether we would look at going travel only. The catch is that at that age, the teams would be eligible to make a run at the LLWS and tourneys leading up to that point and that may be something he is highly interested in.

Sorry, for all the rambling, but I did want to illustrate that the reverse situation could have occurred and you could be wondering if anyone in LL Minors benefits from having a dominant player ruling the league and the individual himself may find the slower and less control pitching to be more of a challenge than the faster pitching. Like most situations, there's pros and cons. For us, at least, one year never really makes or breaks it, as it's a looooong process to get to the point where you're nearing your performance potential.

[CircleChange11]

I'm not sure what people expect when they play their kids up an age level. I'm sure it's a prestige thing to be able to say they play up, but for who the parents or players? Does it get them any further along in the long run? Granted the level of play is better(not always) and that can def help a player by playing harder teams. While a kid may be physically able to do it, they might not be mentally. Good post Real Green...

It depends on the kid.

For our situation, I love how my kid responds and acts around the older players. He very often emulates the good things they do well, plays more aggressively, and it fits his nature (as I've said before it's not my preference but he's not a leader. He's perfectly content to just be a really talented player on a team and handles pressure well, but he doesn't really want to be or display a vocal type leadership).

During the times when we've played up, it has been good for him (IMO) to see that there are other kids like him and that he'll need to continue to work at it to sustain and/or improve his performance. I really like how he identifies that situation and rises to the challenge. When we 'play down' (I don't like how that sounds, but we all know what I mean), there can be lots of mind-wandering and things of that nature as the game is much slower paced and less overall action. Having game situations where you cannot throw the ball full force to a teammate (even when the situation calls for it) has been an issue at times. Regardless, overall he has enjoyed baseball each year.

One of the negatives of "playing up" is that very often 12's talk about different things and use different words than the 10's and even some of the 11's do. So, sometimes there are uncomfortable situations. I can imagine him saying "Why would you want to do that?" when other kids are talking about making out with girls and stuff like that. Last year, he ask me what buttf---ing was because one of the kids was saying that another player likes to do that. There you go, have that discussion with your 10yo. *grin*

I think most parents just want to see their kid play at a level where there's a challenge, but a challenge they can handle. It would be far easier to just stay in the lower league and dominate and then walk around as they were King Poop on Turd Island. If they did that, just as many parents would be saying "Big deal, he should be playing up anyway."

You just try to do what is best for your kids, and sometimes you do really know one way or another until you try it. Learning through experience.

I will say, as a dad/asst-coach, this year in 9-10 was agonizing for me. The games were sooooo slow and soooo many walks and soooo few BIP, that I often found myself counting down the outs or counting down the minutes to the time limit, while thinking ahead to the TB games. I did not like that it was mindset and feel guilty that I viewed the games like that, but that's what I felt and thought.

[azmatsfan]

As far as moving a 10 y.o. up to LL Majors, I think the best rule of thumb is that if he isn't going to be a regular player in the infield and bat in the top half of the batting order, he should stay down. My youngest will be a 10U player this next year. I think he'd be drafted into the Majors if he's in the draft, but I'm planning on keeping him out of the draft to have one more year of Minors. The only exception would be if he makes great strides this fall, and he'd meet the criteria I mentioned above. I see no reason to push kids ahead.

Full Disclosure: My oldest played up all through LL and sometimes in travel ball, but has always been tall for his age and has a May birthday, so he was playing with kids in his grade.

[azmatsfan]

When they start to play more games than practice!!!

I hope not. In our Little League if there any teams at any level that have more practices than games, it's only by one or two. I would say that growth in performance is directly related to how much practice a player puts in outside of team practices and games.

[tg643]

When does the growth in performance begin to slow down?

It never slows down. Each year is another rung up the ladder until the game tells the player he's not good enough to advance to the next rung. I have seen some high school players become complacent once they became starters. But most still want to become better players while some want to improve to play college ball.

When my son was sixteen he played summer ball with and against players whose intentions were to play D1 ball. Many made it. All are playing colllege ball. The development even continued at this level. Once in college the instruction amped it up another level. Physical development lends itself to skill development.

The kids I know in the minors say they are getting develpopment they didn't get in college ball. It never ends until the player's journey ends.

[tg643]

I'm not sure what people expect when they play their kids up an age level. I'm sure it's a prestige thing to be able to say they play up, but for who the parents or players? Does it get them any further along in the long run? Granted the level of play is better(not always) and that can def help a player by playing harder teams. While a kid may be physically able to do it, they might not be mentally. Good post Real Green...

I don't see the need to play up before a kid masters the 60/90 field. Technically my son played up starting at 13U. The date change would have allowed him to stay in LL and 12U ball. He chose to move on with the rest of the kids he had been playing with and against. At fourteen he played up to 16U. At fifteen he played 17/18U. Once on the full size field play to your level of ability.

[johnlanza]

I would say that growth in performance is directly related to how much practice a player puts in outside of team practices and games.

Amen! Just because I may be the greatest coach this side of (name your favorite coach here), the players will not get better just by showing up to our practices once or twice per week. And I let the parents know this each season. As has been stated in this forum before, there is usually a direct correlation that the better players on the team are usually the sons (or daughters) of the coaches. And in my son's case, it's not because he's inherited a lot of athletic genes from me or my wife. It's because of the additional reps he initiates when we aren't at a team practice. My son is almost nine (about to begin the kid-pitch journey), and I realize that once puberty comes, this will probably turn around, and inheriting good genes WILL make a difference. And , unfortunately, I'm not 6'2", 210 lbs.

[tg643]

It's important to build a passion for the game when the kids are preteens. They are going to hit an age where they stop being puppy dogs doing what you say. The extra work will then come from within due to a passion for the game and a passion to excel.

[real green]

I'm not sure what people expect when they play their kids up an age level. I'm sure it's a prestige thing to be able to say they play up, but for who the parents or players? Does it get them any further along in the long run? Granted the level of play is better(not always) and that can def help a player by playing harder teams. While a kid may be physically able to do it, they might not be mentally. Good post Real Green...

My son struggled mentally. Our league is structured to bring up strong 10's into the Majors. It's an accomplishment for a 10yr old to make the cut. I could have requested him to be removed from the draft but choose not to. He is an old 10 with a 6/28 bday. His class is split between minors and majors. The kids do get some bragging rights moving up and are teased a bit when played down.

His confidence was rattled. Started off pretty hot but was HBP pretty good twice and all confidence went away. An untimely error topped it off and it was a tough hole to come out of. He was very hard on himself and expected more from his personal performance.

Three 10's from the minors made the All Stars (all held down). Apples to Apples comparison (kind of). If you went to a game over summer and asked which kids didn't play up, you might pick one of the three out.

I'll be curious to see how these three fair in the Majors.