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What are the 3 most important keys to throwing changeup?

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  • What are the 3 most important keys to throwing changeup?

    Please list them. What's the best thought at release? Turn it over? Pull straight down? What are the 3 most important keys?
    Major Figure

  • #2
    Omg,

    What's the best thought at release?
    Positive !!!

    “Turn it over?”
    Absolutely and voluntarily maximaly pronated with any of the –20 pitches, and all others I might add.

    “Pull straight down?
    Huh ? Uh oh, This is the worst !!

    This leads to an unnecessary recovery position, Torso also down and the back side leg up leaving you susceptible to defensive reaction injuries and that may have not matched your fastball look and is highly injurious especially for youth pitchers when they ballisticaly wrench their humerus across and down the now contracted ball side pectoralis major levering the head of the humerus causing “LL shoulder “ at the largest growth and latest matureing growth plate. (biologically aged 19). The elbow that is pulled down and across instead of forwards with it’s humerus inwardly rotated and elbow popping up to safely recover avoiding rotator cuff problems and non –pronation performance will lead to a supination gateway. I could go on with related injurious overlap.

    If you want to go with supination, "pull down" the elbow. If you want to pronate the elbow must travel up.

    “What are the 3 most important keys?”
    1.The matching of all your other pitch type drivelines
    2 .The matching of all your other pitch types effort.
    3. This pitch must be powerfully humiliating to the batters and is if thrown maximally and directed to as much horizontal release axis presentation you can attain
    . Our –20 changeups are Pronated curve and it’s opposite the pronated screwball.
    Last edited by Dirtberry; 08-02-2012, 04:12 PM.
    Primum non nocere

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    • #3
      #1 throw it hard
      #2 see #1
      efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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      • #4
        Does Dirtberry mean Don't do this?

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        • #5
          Baseball Love,

          “Does Dirtberry mean Don't do this?”
          Yes, do not, stay taller and rotate more so you can have your ball side leg through quicker and get down by the time the batter makes contact. This traditional leg drive position leaves you susceptible as with this pitcher. This looks like supinated curve recovery reaction that still allows you to rotate your shoulders further but pull down instead of throw out forwards even with the elbow popping up at release,
          Last edited by Dirtberry; 08-02-2012, 09:18 PM.
          Primum non nocere

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dirtberry View Post
            Baseball Love,



            Yes, do not, stay taller and rotate more so you can have your ball side leg through quicker and get down by the time the batter makes contact. This traditional leg drive position leaves you susceptible as with this pitcher. This looks like his supinated curve, what is the pitch type love I’m sure this still shows you ?
            This is Tyler Matzek, your pitcher pitching this year.

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            • #7
              Baseball Love,

              “This is Tyler Matzek”
              You say this as if I did not know it

              “your pitcher pitching this year”
              By saying this must mean you think I’m still working with him?
              I have not worked with him extensively since he was a Jr. in High school.
              What’s your point or agenda here? He is not my pitcher he is colorados pitcher.
              He is performing the way a leg lifted mechanic intuitively forces you to recover.
              He knows this and he knows he is exposed. When acquiescing to conform things are going to revert to where your current coaches want them.
              What was the position of the arm just before this still that tells you little? What was the pitch type? Oh I forgot you run for the hills when questions are asked!

              If I were calling the shots he would stay taller and rotate further while driving the ball and I would not let him throw 80% fastballs the way they are sequencing him now but that is their business not mine.

              What does his mechanical flaws have to do with the recommendations I give here any ways. It does not change the recommendations on how to proceed correctly.

              I guess this is to obvious for you to figure out but I do expect your continued foolery.
              Primum non nocere

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by omg View Post
                Please list them. What's the best thought at release? Turn it over? Pull straight down? What are the 3 most important keys?
                1. Baseball pressed against the pads of the hands. Fingers can wrap around however feels good for the pitcher.

                *** I usually teach pitchers to have the ball in the glove with the 2-seams facing you (running parallel, north and south) so that you can reach into your glove and grab the ball with whatever grip you want without giving away tells to the batter/team. With the change, the ring and middle fingers go on the seams, instead of the index and middle.

                2. Same arm speed and release point. It's needs to look like everything else. In college we'd occassionally grunt on a changeup. You throw it has hard as everything else. The ball being pressed against the pads of the hands/palm is what causes the reduction in speed.

                3. Keep it down in the zone and don;t throw it to guys that can't catch up to the fastball.

                Play catch with it often and consistently and when you can locate it well, then you start working on turning it over and getting some run on it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
                  …The ball being pressed against the pads of the hands/palm is what causes the reduction in speed….
                  A good 3 fingered change can be thrown without touching or barely touching the pads of the hand, as can a split which is a form of a CU. What you’re describing is often referred to as “choking the ball”, and should take more velocity off the pitch, but it definitely isn’t necessary, and seems to be that if its taught to all, it’s a lot like cloning and wouldn’t encourage the pitcher to try other grips.
                  The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                    A good 3 fingered change can be thrown without touching or barely touching the pads of the hand, as can a split which is a form of a CU. What you’re describing is often referred to as “choking the ball”, and should take more velocity off the pitch, but it definitely isn’t necessary, and seems to be that if its taught to all, it’s a lot like cloning and wouldn’t encourage the pitcher to try other grips.
                    1. I assumed we were talking about youth pitchers.

                    2. I said pads of the hands, not palm.

                    Grab a baseball and check your changeup grip and see if the ball is pressed against the ring and middle pads (where the callouses are). My guess is that they are.

                    In order to avoid this, you have to have very large hands. I can palm a basketball and the baseball is still pressed against the pads of those 2 fingers.

                    For a youth player the ball will likely be touching a lot of the palm with a change-up, not so much with a fastball grip.

                    Edit" It's also pressed against the pads to hold the ball, because in some varieties the thumb is not "under the ball" helping to secure it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
                      1. I assumed we were talking about youth pitchers.

                      2. I said pads of the hands, not palm.

                      Grab a baseball and check your changeup grip and see if the ball is pressed against the ring and middle pads (where the callouses are). My guess is that they are.

                      In order to avoid this, you have to have very large hands. I can palm a basketball and the baseball is still pressed against the pads of those 2 fingers.
                      See, now we’ve gotten into a definition thing. When I read “pads of the hands”, I immediately thought of the “HAND” not the “FINGERS”.

                      For a youth player the ball will likely be touching a lot of the palm with a change-up, not so much with a fastball grip.
                      Depends on the player and the grip.

                      Edit" It's also pressed against the pads to hold the ball, because in some varieties the thumb is not "under the ball" helping to secure it.
                      Again, depends on the player and the grip.

                      This is why I’m not a big fan of sweeping statements.
                      The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        CU--Throw the side of the ball, not the back of the ball.
                        Skip

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                          See, now we’ve gotten into a definition thing. When I read “pads of the hands”, I immediately thought of the “HAND” not the “FINGERS”.
                          Why? Only the fingers have pads? The pads of the "hand" are one area. It's not like there's different sets of "pads" all over the hand that could/would create confusion.

                          Depends on the player and the grip.

                          Again, depends on the player and the grip.
                          No, it doesn't.

                          The hands of youth players are of such a size that the ball nearly touches the pads on a fastball grip, which has been one of my comments about the effectiveness of changeups at this age since a "properly" thrown changeup won't be much different than a fastball at this age/size. The "best" changeups at this age are simply "lobs" (10U), because due to the lack of hand size, the difference in grip/pressure against the pads in a fastball v changeup is minimal.

                          This is why I’m not a big fan of sweeping statements.
                          When we're talking about a group of people that number in the hundreds of thousands (youth baseball players), you're going to have to accept some general staements.

                          I'm not going to make a list of "For pitchers with a finger length of 3.25 to 3.5 inches ..." and for pitchers with a finger length of 3.5 to 3.75 ..." and on and on.

                          Youth pitchers generally have small hands. Small hands generally do not have much disparity between their fastball and changeup grips. Thus, for small hands or youth pitchers there really isn;t a big difference between their fastball and changeup speeds. As they age, get bigger, get bigger hands, the disparity becomes greater as does the effectiveness.

                          I don't feel like talking about the X% of youth pitchers that have large hands for their age as if their demographic affects the discussion significantly.

                          There are enough unique baseball players in the world that almost no statement could be viewed as entirely true. General comments suffice for general topics. Otherwise each comments come loaded with a barrage of disclaimers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CircleChange11 View Post
                            Why? Only the fingers have pads? The pads of the "hand" are one area. It's not like there's different sets of "pads" all over the hand that could/would create confusion.
                            I already said that when I read “pads”, I didn’t immediately think of the finger pads. In fact, perhaps I’ve heard a reference to “finger pads”, but I honestly can’t remember it. This is one of those things where if were speaking face to face or you were demonstrating what you meant, there wouldn’t have been any confusion. THat’s one of the bad things about trying to communicate this way.

                            No, it doesn't.

                            The hands of youth players are of such a size that the ball nearly touches the pads on a fastball grip, which has been one of my comments about the effectiveness of changeups at this age since a "properly" thrown changeup won't be much different than a fastball at this age/size. The "best" changeups at this age are simply "lobs" (10U), because due to the lack of hand size, the difference in grip/pressure against the pads in a fastball v changeup is minimal.
                            How did this discussion only pertain to little kids?

                            When we're talking about a group of people that number in the hundreds of thousands (youth baseball players), you're going to have to accept some general staements.
                            As I said, when did this discussion become only pertinent to little kids? To me “youth baseball players” aren’t limited to only 8YOs and less.

                            I'm not going to make a list of "For pitchers with a finger length of 3.25 to 3.5 inches ..." and for pitchers with a finger length of 3.5 to 3.75 ..." and on and on.

                            Youth pitchers generally have small hands. Small hands generally do not have much disparity between their fastball and changeup grips. Thus, for small hands or youth pitchers there really isn;t a big difference between their fastball and changeup speeds. As they age, get bigger, get bigger hands, the disparity becomes greater as does the effectiveness.

                            I don't feel like talking about the X% of youth pitchers that have large hands for their age as if their demographic affects the discussion significantly.

                            There are enough unique baseball players in the world that almost no statement could be viewed as entirely true. General comments suffice for general topics. Otherwise each comments come loaded with a barrage of disclaimers.
                            I wouldn’t expect you to do that, but then again, I don’t see where the discussion was intended to mean only little kids. You said earlier your assumption was that we were talking about “you” pitchers, and I keep trying to say that my assumption was something different. If you only want to discuss little kids, I don’t even see the point for them throwing a CU. How to you work on aCU with a kid who throws a FB with 3 fingers, which is a CU? IOW, it makes no sense to even try until the kid’s hand is big enough for different grips.
                            The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                            Comment

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