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  • unearned run question

    Say a batter leads off an inning and gets on first on an error. If he is batted around to score, I understand that is an unearned run. But say after he scores, the team loads the bases on 2 hits and a walk, then a grand slam is hit. Are all five runs in the inning now unearned? Or is it a clean slate now that the original runner put on because of error has scored?

  • #2
    I believe unearned runs are runs that score after three outs should have been made. If the leadoff batter reaches on an error, and the next batter homers, both runs are earned. If the leadoff batter reaches on an error and a batter homers with two outs, the run is unearned, because there should have been three outs. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will point it out! LOL

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    • #3
      Originally posted by banny View Post
      Say a batter leads off an inning and gets on first on an error. If he is batted around to score, I understand that is an unearned run. But say after he scores, the team loads the bases on 2 hits and a walk, then a grand slam is hit. Are all five runs in the inning now unearned? Or is it a clean slate now that the original runner put on because of error has scored?
      It all depends on if there are any outs and how they fall. From what you said there, with no other considerations, 5 runs will have scored, 4 of them earned.
      The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

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      • #4
        Oops. I see that I was wrong. I'm not surprised.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
          It all depends on if there are any outs and how they fall. From what you said there, with no other considerations, 5 runs will have scored, 4 of them earned.
          Thank you for answering, but I'm still confused. Are you saying the first four runs are unearned and then the guy that hits the grand slam, only the run he scored counts? Also, I don't get what how many outs there are in an inning has to do with whether the runs are earned or unearned. Example: If a batter reaches second on a two base error with two out, then is singled home, isn't that an unearned run, regardless of how many outs there are?

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          • #6
            ***if a guy gets on base by an error, he is always going to be an unearned run. if he reaches base on an error with 2 outs, any runs scored after him are also unearned. an unearned run can be changed to an earned run if it's scored with less than 2 outs and something happens after he's scored that would have scored him regardless. for example: no outs, fly ball hit to RF, runner tags up from 2nd base and the RF throws it into the 3rd base dugout and runner is awarded home...unearned run. next batter hits a homerun. now they are both earned because the runner would have scored anyway on the HR.

            ***my opinion, not textbook.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by banny View Post
              Thank you for answering, but I'm still confused. Are you saying the first four runs are unearned and then the guy that hits the grand slam, only the run he scored counts? Also, I don't get what how many outs there are in an inning has to do with whether the runs are earned or unearned. Example: If a batter reaches second on a two base error with two out, then is singled home, isn't that an unearned run, regardless of how many outs there are?
              I’m not quite sure why you’re confused. At the point you stopped, there would have been no outs and 5 runs scored. The 1st one is unearned because no runner that reaches on an error can be an earned run if he scores. After that, as long as there are no more errors, CIs, or passed balls, and in your scenario there weren’t, all the runs that score in that inning will be earned, until 2 outs are made. That’s when the inning should have ended, and any runs scoring after that would be unearned.
              The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TexAg View Post
                …for example: no outs, fly ball hit to RF, runner tags up from 2nd base and the RF throws it into the 3rd base dugout and runner is awarded home...unearned run. …
                Not quite true. A run is never earned or unearned until the inning is over, or a run completes the game. It’s a very bad habit to get into to award ERs/UERs before they should be.
                The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by banny View Post
                  Say a batter leads off an inning and gets on first on an error. If he is batted around to score, I understand that is an unearned run. But say after he scores, the team loads the bases on 2 hits and a walk, then a grand slam is hit. Are all five runs in the inning now unearned? Or is it a clean slate now that the original runner put on because of error has scored?
                  The general idea behind earned runs is to determine how many runs would have scored that inning if no fielding mistakes had been made. So in general if the run would have scored regardless, the run is earned. That's why if there's an error that would have been the third out, any runs scoring after that are unearned. In your scenario since the first batter would have only been the first out, any run after his will be earned until there are 2 outs.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                    Not quite true. A run is never earned or unearned until the inning is over, or a run completes the game. It’s a very bad habit to get into to award ERs/UERs before they should be.
                    Not quite true. Some runs can be officially determined as earned or unearned during the middle of an inning if there is a pitching change. Sometimes after a reliever comes in and one or two inherited runners score, you will hear the announcer say, "That will close the book on (the starter), whose line is 5 1/3 innings, 4 hits, 3 runs, 2 earned . . ."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Macker View Post
                      Not quite true. Some runs can be officially determined as earned or unearned during the middle of an inning if there is a pitching change.
                      Or even if there's not a pitching change.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ipitch View Post
                        Or even if there's not a pitching change.
                        True. Leadoff batter singles and scores on a hit by the next batter, that leadoff batter's run is earned no matter what else happens in the inning.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Macker View Post
                          Not quite true. Some runs can be officially determined as earned or unearned during the middle of an inning if there is a pitching change. Sometimes after a reliever comes in and one or two inherited runners score, you will hear the announcer say, "That will close the book on (the starter), whose line is 5 1/3 innings, 4 hits, 3 runs, 2 earned . . ."
                          Well I don’t know how to tell you this, but the announcers are wrong.

                          10.16 EARNED RUNS AND RUNS ALLOWED
                          An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher’s interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.


                          That doesn’t mean reconstruct part of the inning, it means the entire inning or at least as much of it up to the end of the game as possible. But, for all intents and purposes, it is the same thing, once all of a pitchers responsible runners have left the bases. Its just that as far as I know, no one does that.
                          The pitcher who’s afraid to throw strikes, will soon be standing in the shower with the hitter who's afraid to swing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                            Well I don’t know how to tell you this, but the announcers are wrong.
                            They're only wrong if and when they say it too soon. In many circumstances they can "close the book" on a pitcher before the half-inning is ended.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by scorekeeper View Post
                              Well I don’t know how to tell you this, but the announcers are wrong.

                              10.16 EARNED RUNS AND RUNS ALLOWED
                              An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher’s interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.


                              That doesn’t mean reconstruct part of the inning, it means the entire inning or at least as much of it up to the end of the game as possible. But, for all intents and purposes, it is the same thing, once all of a pitchers responsible runners have left the bases. Its just that as far as I know, no one does that.
                              The announcers aren't wrong in his scenario. If a pitcher gives up a single with one out and is pulled, then the next pitcher gives up a home run to the next batter, the run scoring from first will count as an earned run for the first pitcher regardless of what happens later in the inning. Make sure you understand the purpose of the rule. There are some instances when it's necessary to see how the inning plays out, but there are others when you can make the determination prior to the end of the inning.

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