Strike Zone Size

[CircleChange11]

Doesn’t make a great deal of difference what the age is. Since LL Majors layers can be 9, it means a heck of a lot of kids. Now if LL wants to change it so that LL Majors is only 12’s, that’d be different, but I’m afraid that would pretty much destroy many leagues.

What % of LL Majors pitchers are 9? What % are 12.

I'm not looking to make LL Majors rules/dimensions that address every possible situation.

All I can say is, your experience needs to be widened. Actually, that’s pretty descriptive of LL all stars, which is what the LLWS is made of. But there are still a fair number of 11,s.

1. I don't really watch LLWS. I was watching it because our team was in a regional.
2. My LL majors experience is limited to our town and the town I was raised in.

Again, typically what % of LL Majors pitchers are 12? 11? 10?

I find it difficult to believe that as many as 1/3 would not be twelve. If that's the case then I would ask "What's up with the 12yo's?"

Are the 11's now pitching because many of the 12's are playing TB?

Why? Its been fine for a very long time.

Fine? How? As compared to what?

Rather than play on 46/60 for 4 consecutive seasons and then go to 54/80 in Junior High. Why not go from 46/60 in LL Minors, 50/70 in LL majors, and 54/80 in Junior High? Certainly there's enough research in the medical community and physiology journals that shows that smaller progressions are better than larger progressions.

Be interesting to hear from the communities that have used the 50/70 waiver for their LL's and see what they think about the difference in distance. My guess is that the average and below players like it more.

In fact your statement about the kids going from 46/60 to 54/80 shows how narrow that experience is. Many of our kids here go from 46/60 straight to 60/90, but it all depends on the organization they’re in.

Okay, great. So, they go from 46/60 to 60/90. Does that mean it's a good thing? Does that mean there's not a better way?

Just stating how things are isn't a good argument in itself. If "tradition" is your best reason for doing something, then it's probably not that great of a reason.

Why would we ever have a kid jump from 46 feet to 60 feet in consecutive seasons?

Again, its your experience. I challenge you to come watch one of our league’s regular games. In the roughly 18 years I’ve been associated with our league, we’ve had very few kids who could “blow away most batters” because we’ve had so few really dominating pitchers.

It's just my experience? Am I the only one that notices what happens to boys around age 11 and 12? I mean they seem to get quite a bit bigger and stronger.

I repeat, boys at age 12 pitch from the same distance they do at age 9. Here's what I would request you do. Go to a local middle school and look at 6th grade boys. Then go to an elementary school and look at 3rd grade boys. Report the difference and explain how it's just my experience.

If pitchers at age 12 are not throwing serious gas from pitching from the same distance they did as 9 year olds, then I would have to seriously question the pitching instruction they're getting because at age 12 many of them will be close to double the weight they were at 9, and if they aren't throwing significantly harder than they were at 9, something is wrong.

Another possibility is that many of the lesser players drop baseball from LL Minors to LL Majors so the quality of batters is better, but I have not seen that be the case.

The best pitchers in LL Majors (best meaning 1-2 best on each team) will also be facing half a lineup that shouldn't be able to hit them just given the nature of youth baseball and the differences between kids that play competitively and the kids that are "on the team".

My experience is in a LL Community that has 7 12-player teams, where the TB team is required to play LL. If the TB players were out of LL, then it might be a completely different situation. This basically means that the 2 best pitchers off each team would be out of the league. If you take the best 15% and/or the worst 15% out of anything, you will basically remove the extremes that significantly affect the game.

The answer isn’t always to make adjustments with the very best or worst players in mind. Its always to head to the average. At least that’s MO.

I agree. My suggestions for 50/70 have more to do with just pitching or the best players.

[scorekeeper]

What % of LL Majors pitchers are 9? What % are 12.

I'm not looking to make LL Majors rules/dimensions that address every possible situation.

I wouldn’t have any idea what those percentages would be, but as long as it is possible, you can bet someone’s doing it. The thing is, making the distance great would serve to discourage having younger kid pitch, even more than now. But to me, the idea of organizations like LLI, is to give as many kids as possible the opportunity.

1. I don't really watch LLWS. I was watching it because our team was in a regional.
2. My LL majors experience is limited to our town and the town I was raised in.

Again, typically what % of LL Majors pitchers are 12? 11? 10?

I find it difficult to believe that as many as 1/3 would not be twelve. If that's the case then I would ask "What's up with the 12yo's?"

Are the 11's now pitching because many of the 12's are playing TB?

I understand, and guess you’re pretty typical. Most of us don’t have the time to look at a wide variety of situations.

As I said earlier, I haven’t got a clue about those percentages, but I’d guess that more than age, it’s a size and velocity thing.

I don’t have answers to your questions, and I doubt anyone does. But the great thing about LLI is, each league can pretty much do whatever they want, until its time to compete with all other teams in venues like the AS tournament that’s going on right now.

Fine? How? As compared to what?

If yoyu don’t like the format and the rules, why not just take your kid to another organization? LLI isn’t in the business of preparing players for the next level, whatever that may be. Read its purpose. If you want someplace to act as a a place devoted to advancing players to the next level, I can see why you believe LLI is wanting.

Rather than play on 46/60 for 4 consecutive seasons and then go to 54/80 in Junior High. Why not go from 46/60 in LL Minors, 50/70 in LL majors, and 54/80 in Junior High? Certainly there's enough research in the medical community and physiology journals that shows that smaller progressions are better than larger progressions.

What little Jr high ball there is around here, is on the 60/90 field. As far as I know, all MS and HS ball use the same rules, and kiddyball fields isn’t one of those rules.

Be interesting to hear from the communities that have used the 50/70 waiver for their LL's and see what they think about the difference in distance. My guess is that the average and below players like it more.

There’s a great project for you, although right out of the box I’d say the participants would be prejudiced. What a more interesting thing would be for me is, finding out if those that do go to a 50/70 prove to be at a significant advantage for moving to higher levels.

Okay, great. So, they go from 46/60 to 60/90. Does that mean it's a good thing? Does that mean there's not a better way?

It all depends on what your goals are.

Just stating how things are isn't a good argument in itself. If "tradition" is your best reason for doing something, then it's probably not that great of a reason.

What I’m really saying is, I don’t see any real advantage in having teeny little steps, when I know that what takes place on smaller fields doesn’t have a significant impact on what happens on the big field.

Why would we ever have a kid jump from 46 feet to 60 feet in consecutive seasons?

Why not? Its not as though the kids can’t play on the big fields. My boy was playing on the 46/60 on his LLI team, but from the time he was 11, all of his pitching practice away from the team, batting practice away from the team, and fielding practice away from the team was on a 60/90 field, and he was considerably smaller than average.

All anyone needs to do is understand performance is relative.

It's just my experience? Am I the only one that notices what happens to boys around age 11 and 12? I mean they seem to get quite a bit bigger and stronger.

Sure they do. But that doesn’t mean they all can throw 80mhp or hit balls 350’.

I repeat, boys at age 12 pitch from the same distance they do at age 9. Here's what I would request you do. Go to a local middle school and look at 6th grade boys. Then go to an elementary school and look at 3rd grade boys. Report the difference and explain how it's just my experience.

Your argument seems to be with LLI rules. So I repeat, why not just move on to a venue that supports what you want?

If pitchers at age 12 are not throwing serious gas from pitching from the same distance they did as 9 year olds, then I would have to seriously question the pitching instruction they're getting because at age 12 many of them will be close to double the weight they were at 9, and if they aren't throwing significantly harder than they were at 9, something is wrong.

So what? Again, it seems to be your belief that all 12YO’s throw 75-80MPH, and that ain’t what happens.

Another possibility is that many of the lesser players drop baseball from LL Minors to LL Majors so the quality of batters is better, but I have not seen that be the case.

That’s what happens at every level! Heck, it happens between Fr and JV ball! Its natural attrition.

The best pitchers in LL Majors (best meaning 1-2 best on each team) will also be facing half a lineup that shouldn't be able to hit them just given the nature of youth baseball and the differences between kids that play competitively and the kids that are "on the team".

While it is true that the relative skill level of the average LL lineup doesn’t equate to the relative skill level of a ML lineup, I doubt that half the kids in a LL lineup wouldn’t be able to hit the 2 best pitchers on the other team. If that were true, kids wouldn’t even bother to play because they’d have no chance.

My experience is in a LL Community that has 7 12-player teams, where the TB team is required to play LL. If the TB players were out of LL, then it might be a completely different situation. This basically means that the 2 best pitchers off each team would be out of the league. If you take the best 15% and/or the worst 15% out of anything, you will basically remove the extremes that significantly affect the game.

Well, you’re situation is far different than ours. We only have 4 teams, and no TB team, although many of the kids do play TB. We play games against ourselves, and with another small league in the area. Right down the road there’s a league with 24 teams in 4 divisions.

That’s why I’m saying, you don’t have a wide enough experience to try to dictate what everyone should do.

I agree. My suggestions for 50/70 have more to do with just pitching or the best players.

And that’s why I strongly suggest you leave the LLI rules just the way they are, because a lot more kids will benefit from them than would benefit from moving to 50/70, and move on to a different organization.

My goal has always been to keep as many kids playing the game as possible, for as long as possible, not to concentrate on those that already possess a high degree of skill. The reason is, until players get more physically and mentally matured, there’s really no way to know how good or bad they really are,