Pitching: Holding Runners On / Pickoffs

[johnlanza]

Where is the best place to learn more about legal pickoff moves? I'm not talking about borderline, trying to bend the rules, kind of stuff. Just some good tutorials on holding runners on.

Specifically, I have this question: 9U kid-pitch league where runners can lead off. Runners on first and third. The right-handed pitcher is pitching from the stretch. If he raises his left leg, can he pause at that point before deciding if he wants to throw (or fake) to third base? My son's team was practicing lead-offs and holding runners on. A couple of the pitchers would pause for about two or three seconds with their leg in the raised position. Then they would either throw to third or make the pitch to home. My thought is this would be called a balk.

[jdfromfla]

Yes it is a balk if it is not part of their regular stretch delivery.

Definative balk rules can be found here; http://www.ehow.com/list_6297957_rul...-baseball.html

[johnlanza]

Yes it is a balk if it is not part of their regular stretch delivery.

So if a pitcher happens to always pitch from the stretch, and he always pauses two to three seconds on leg lift (even with the bases empty), it would not be a balk when runners are on base?

[dominik]

At 9U I would worry about the pitcher throwing strikes. you can't stop kids from stealing bases at this age.

[ipitch]

Specifically, I have this question: 9U kid-pitch league where runners can lead off.

Leadoffs in 9U? Who knew?

[ipitch]

Specifically, I have this question: 9U kid-pitch league where runners can lead off.

Leadoffs in 9U? Who knew?

[jdfromfla]

So if a pitcher happens to always pitch from the stretch, and he always pauses two to three seconds on leg lift (even with the bases empty), it would not be a balk when runners are on base?

This is correct...very easy to see in a couple of Japanese pitchers who do just that..

[ipitch]

So if a pitcher happens to always pitch from the stretch, and he always pauses two to three seconds on leg lift (even with the bases empty), it would not be a balk when runners are on base?

This is correct...very easy to see in a couple of Japanese pitchers who do just that..

They pause with runners on base??

[raptor]

Where is the best place to learn more about legal pickoff moves? I'm not talking about borderline, trying to bend the rules, kind of stuff. Just some good tutorials on holding runners on.

Specifically, I have this question: 9U kid-pitch league where runners can lead off. Runners on first and third. The right-handed pitcherol is pitching from the stretch. If he raises his left leg, can he pause at that point before deciding if he wants to throw (or fake)
to third base? My son's team was practicing lead-offs and holding runners on. A couple of the pitchers would pause for about two or three seconds with their leg in the raised position. Then they would either throw to third or make the pitch to home. My thought is this would be called a balk.

Most non-little league leagues and orgs do start leadoffs at nine. And Dominik is right..at nine all but the slowest runners can steal second pretty much at will. We stole 441 bases at a 96% success rate at 9u. Id say its worth considering not even throwing down to second; just concede the bag and try to throw them out at third...shorter throw. At 10u our sb total was 221 at a 90% clip.
A couple thoughts..we don't try for pickoffs at third..too many bad things can happen. Never hold a runner on at third like you see many teams do. Sure you can throw in a double move and occasionally trade a run for an out..and that age outs are more valuable usually.
Id work on varying your counts out of the stretch...sometimes just holding and stepping off..just disrupt the runners' timing. At nine most runners score anyway so throwing strikes is the way to get outs..not pickoffs.
At 10u from the same distance (46' 65') pitchers and catchers throws are much stronger and there are some we just flat cant steal on. Then its just teaching runners good secondary leads and reading pitches in the dirt. Our teach is anytime a catcher goes to his knees, break for the bag and don't hesitate.

[ralanprod]

The balk video to buy... Jim Evan's balk video

With a runner on you can't pause for 2-3 seconds with your leg up - nor would you want to. However, you could use a slower and higher leg lift than normal. That's probably not something to teach that age group though. They have enough issues just throwing strikes.

Holding runners on 3rd creates more problems than it solves. Better off to use a timing play if there is a base runner taking an early, aggressive lead. (That's where the slow/high leg lift comes in) Of course at 9-10 there's a better chance that the ball is going to get thrown away than the runner is going to get caught.

[jdfromfla]

They pause with runners on base??

As long as it is done consistantly, you get a balk when you move outside of your "normal" motion...so if it's normal for you to pause...no balk, do it once, you'll get the umps attention, twice and a balk will ensue, some guys have crazy looking stretches that just look balk like...but as long as it's what they do..no balk.

[ipitch]

As long as it is done consistantly, you get a balk when you move outside of your "normal" motion...so if it's normal for you to pause...no balk, do it once, you'll get the umps attention, twice and a balk will ensue, some guys have crazy looking stretches that just look balk like...but as long as it's what they do..no balk.

I understand, but I was referring to you saying that some Japanese pitchers pause with their leg lift with men on base. How can they pause without giving up numerous stolen bases? Are you sure they're not just pausing with the bases empty?

[CircleChange11]

I understand, but I was referring to you saying that some Japanese pitchers pause with their leg lift with men on base. How can they pause without giving up numerous stolen bases? Are you sure they're not just pausing with the bases empty?

The right-handed Japanese pitchers DO NOT pause for a coupla seconds with runners on base.

Dwight Gooden was about as slow to home as a pitcher can get, and that's on the extreme slow side.

Probably a lot of exaggeration in this thread.

[tg643]

My son as a catcher the first time a runner stoled second in 11U. He turned to me and said, "If the guy is sliding into second as I come up to throw I should hold the ball?"

[jdfromfla]

understand, but I was referring to you saying that some Japanese pitchers pause with their leg lift with men on base. How can they pause without giving up numerous stolen bases? Are you sure they're not just pausing with the bases empty?

Well it isn't seconds, I will concede the point, I just went through a whole slew of vids...shall we say higher and longer knee lift. The point I was making was still true (Odd pauses, as long as they are a part of the norm won't be called a balk).