An honest group of questions for those that know the little leagues

[Ben Grimm]

I was visiting my sister today and my nephew showed me a trophy he won from little league this year. It was some bobble-head thingie on a base which read something like "Congratulations 2012 baseball". Their team finished dead last and each kid got a trophy. I never heard of this before, but I don't have kids.

I delved in a bit deeper with his mom and found out that even though he didn't start in the field, he got to hit each game as apparently every child hits on his 12-player team. There also was no tryout process. They basically pulled names out of the hat and that kid played for a team.

I was floored.

I played little league back in the 70s. I precisely remember doing drills for tryouts to make a team. Once a player was proven successful, he wouldn't really have to "try out" anymore until the next level. I remember my friend getting cut. From what I heard, there were no cuts on my nephew's league, even though I saw some kids were clearly not good enough to play.

We used to have a trophy banquet. But trophies were only given to the team that won and individual ones to the All-Stars of the league.

My niece then showed me a trophy she got for soccer while half her team was more interested in digging holes in the dirt over playing the game - and that's when they actually were supposedly on the field.

I understand trophies and such can elevate a child's sense of accomplishment, build on their self-confidence, and all. But does is also take away from their competetive drive? To know you'll get a trophy simply to show up wasn't even a thought when I was their age. And to get one added to my competetive spirit. What do you guys think about this?

[shake-n-bake]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think a "trophy" is a poor choice for what should be just a commemorative of the season, team, experience.

I'd rather see some signed baseballs or probably a 1000 other more original and meaningful parting gifts is more appropriate.

Apparently though some parents really want the trophies. Personally, I think they're just really narrow minded and think it has to be a trophy because that's all anyone else has ever done. I had a few bitter parents when I said no trophies. They started a little bit of a mutiny and were going to organize and get them anyway. Turned out though that the majority see it like we do.

[Ben Grimm]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think a "trophy" is a poor choice for what should be just a commemorative of the season, team, experience.

I'd rather see some signed baseballs or probably a 1000 other more original and meaningful parting gifts is more appropriate.

Apparently though some parents really want the trophies. Personally, I think they're just really narrow minded and think it has to be a trophy because that's all anyone else has ever done. I had a few bitter parents when I said no trophies. They started a little bit of a mutiny and were going to organize and get them anyway. Turned out though that the majority see it like we do.

Thanks for the reply shake... can I assume you're a coach?

And if so, do you guys do tryouts and such? I vividly remember kids not making a team and were "tutored" to be good enough the next season. Too harsh? Just right?

[pcarnette]

What age group are you referring to? I don't know much about Little League per se, my son plays Pony. At 9-10 in Pony our league begins "tryouts" for drafting purposes, but every one gets to be one a team; and at that age group there is a minimum amount of playing time guaranteed. "Tryouts" and drafting continues through Bronco, Colt, etc, but I don't believe there is a minimum playing time guarantee any longer.

I suspect what you're seeing compared to the 70s is a result of a number of things like a decreased interest in youth baseball and an increase in travel ball, which dilutes the rec league talent pool to the point that leagues like Little League, Pony, etc. don't feel they can turn anyone away, which is how it should be, I think.

On the subject of trophies, typically this is the coach's prerogative, but I'm for team-signed baseballs as a season souvenirs unless something was actually earned like a championship, etc.

[tg643]

Participation trophies are very common in all youth sports in the preteen years. Our youth sports organization oversees baseball, softball, boys and girls basketball, boys and girls soccer and field hockey. We don't give participation trophies to the clinic level groups like tee ball. The first competitive age group, usually 7/8's get them. My kids never cared for them. My son used them for target practice with his BB Gun and archery. The first time I let him fire a real gun he wanted to know if we had any participation trophies left over in the closet. The kids with competitive drive athletically are going to have it regardless of whether or not there's a trophy involved.

[Ben Grimm]

What age group are you referring to? I don't know much about Little League per se, my son plays Pony. At 9-10 in Pony our league begins "tryouts" for drafting purposes, but every one gets to be one a team; and at that age group there is a minimum amount of playing time guaranteed. "Tryouts" and drafting continues through Bronco, Colt, etc, but I don't believe there is a minimum playing time guarantee any longer.

I suspect what you're seeing compared to the 70s is a result of a number of things like a decreased interest in youth baseball and an increase in travel ball, which dilutes the rec league talent pool to the point that leagues like Little League, Pony, etc. don't feel they can turn anyone away, which is how it should be, I think.

On the subject of trophies, typically this is the coach's prerogative, but I'm for team-signed baseballs as a season souvenirs unless something was actually earned like a championship, etc.

Makes sense. Ummm. He's on 7-9 year olds. He's not that much interested in sports as he is in video games and girls (what?). He has an amazing charisma but very low baseball skills other than speed on the bases.

[Ben Grimm]

Paticipation trophies are very common in all youth sports in the preteen years. Our youth sports organization oversees baseball, softball, boys and girls basketball, boys and girls soccer and field hockey. We don't give participation trophies to the clinic level groups like tee ball. The first competitive age group, usually 7/8's get them. My kids never cared for them. My son used them for target practice with his BB Gun and archery. The first time I let him fire a real gun he wanted to know if we had any participation trophies left over in the closet. The kids with competitive drive athletically are going to have it regardless of whether or not there's a trophy involved.

Thanks tg, and I agree to a point. We fought our butts off to not only win a title but to gain those personal titles. It was tough back then to get one and since none of us got a trophy for simply playing, it was a matter of pride between me and my teammates to to gain one. I'm just not sure that intensity still exists today.

[phillyinnj]

I remember when I was ten my friend told me about the tryout for our towns little league team...I had no clue we even had a team as before this we played at a "concrete lot" up the street from my house with tennis and racquet balls. There were probably 25 plus kids trying out for 4 slots. It was a three day tryout...when it was all said and done, I made the team along with my other friends, but the kid that let me know about the tryout did not make it...

they only gave participation trophies for my son's t-ball team...after that they had to win to receive.

[bryan2137]

The trophy issue probably has more to do with money than anything. Back in the 70's you couldnt buy trophys 10 for a dollar so a league couldnt afford to give them to every kid.

[leecemark]

--I didn't get trophies my first year coaching (6-8 coach pitch) and heard about it from a few parents who expected them. The league doesn't pay for them, but they were only $7 apiece (parents were willing to pay, although I didn't take their money). The kids like them and they are a nice momento of the season.
--We have no tryouts at the lower levels (up through age 9). There are tryouts for the draft for the next level and 9 year old can try out to move up a year early. All kids in that age group do make a team though. At the lower levels every kid is the batting lineup and 10 play the field (we only had 10 and the teams that had 11 I let put the extra kid in the OF too). Starting at age 10 its 9 boys on the field and in the lineup, although everybody gets to play at least 2 innings and bat at least once.

[tg643]

When I played LL it was ages 10-12. Talented 9's could count as tens. You had to make the league. You had to be selected in the draft. If a kid didn't make it he could play Farms. Farms got tees and middle school age coaches. You found out if you made a team by looking in the paper on the announced day. Babe Ruth was the same way.

With Babe Ruth all-stars and Legion ball the team was announced with everyone sitting there. In front of everyone you heard your name or you didn't. Junior high and high school sports was about going to the announcement board and having the team list be public information.

No one ever committed suicide over not hearing or seeing their name. Eventually everyone figures out who made it or didn't make it regardless of how cuts are handled. It was awkward to walk or bike home with friends who didn't make it. However, one of my friends (at fifteen) was silent for the fifteen minutes, then busted out laughing and said, "I've been cut. What am I going to tell the wife and kids?"

[TonyK]

I was the first pick in the entire little league draft because I was a tall 11-year old who had never played baseball before. Our 10's on my LL team sat on the bench the entire season and never got a turn at bat. Maybe a quarter of little league age kids in my town never got to play because they were not good enough. The problem is do you include all the kids, or do you exclude some of them, and which ones?

I tried out for Pony League at age 13 and only six of us were selected, and about forty kids were not. The tryouts consisted of 5 pitches to hit, fielding three ground balls at shortstop, and shagging three flies in the outfield. When my turn came I did well, but already knew who the favorites were and sure enough they were picked. Nowadays the town would add a few more teams so more kids can play ball. Somehow I made the JV team as a 10th grader.

My basement mantle is filled with trophies from two kids and 12 years of playing ball. When I'm gone someday, they will probably read the inscriptions on each one and either keep them, or throw them out. But I like the team ball my players signed after we won the LL Championship game. It rests on a metal holder built by a parent in his machine shop. It was my son's final game, and my final game as a coach.

Everyone has a few awards or trophies they hold dear and my son brought one of them with him to college yesterday.

[Ursa Major]

It's a funny coincidence that Mike Huckabee used this very issue - the giving of trophies to every kid regardless of outcome or talent - as a means to lambast President Obama at the Republican Convention tonight to make the point that trying to succeed isn't enough when you're a grown-up with real world consequences to your actions. So this issue resonates beyond sports chat rooms as an issue of politically-correct, don't-damage-kids' self-esteem liberalism. The problem with the argument on both the immediate and metaphoric levels is that - as is often pointed out by both sides - the kids know better, so what difference does it make either way? If the kids don't value "participation trophies", then the argument that they cheapen real victory sorta falls by the wayside. It's like arguing that bringing flowers to a first date with a girl who doesn't love you is a useless expenditure; hey, it's a nice gesture even if it'll be forgotten when they hit the trash the next morning.

I don't think that the omnipresence of trophies is really symptomatic of much of anything other than - as Bryan accurately notes - that trophies are a lot cheaper now in real terms than they were in the 60's and 70's so they're easy to provide. If kids and/or families want them, get them and hand them out knowing that they'll be forgotten if they don't really mean anything. My son has received probably 20 trophies of various kinds over the years, but only the three that represent championships are on our trophy shelf. The remainder are buried in boxes somewhere in the basement.

But can anyone really assert that 'exceptionalism' is somehow diminished because every player gets a trophy. Out of any LL league, maybe only one or two kids will be truly exceptional. In my experience, those kids graciously receive the participation trophies after an unsuccessful season but, if anything, the lack of a real trophy lights a fire under them to succeed next time. The mediocre kid who mindlessly and gratefully receives the token of one of his few seasons of baseball isn't going to turn into an exceptional player in any case. Maybe it'll be a reminder of a time that he was part of an athletic team where (if his coaches are good and smart) he had a few moments where he shone as an athlete. But anyone who thinks that participation trophies will extinguish the fire in otherwise competitive, ambitious kids is either fooling himself or hasn't actually been around real kids with real potential.

[scorekeeper]

I never gave “participation” trophies much though one way or the other. It always seemed silly to me as an adult, but I remember getting them when I was a kid, and for at least a little while it made me feel pretty good hearing people clap when my name was read.

But I think how one feels about them depends on the perspective one has. If your perspective is that the trophy is some kind of award for skill, of course its going to cheapen its value because it lumps in everyone regardless of their skills. But if the perspective is that it simply signifies being a member of the league or team, what’s wrong with that?

How many people have an American flag clipped onto their lapel, suggesting they’re “REAL” Americans? How about all graduated getting a certificate, and maybe the most appropriate, how many players on the HS team get letters? The general “award” is nothing more than an acknowledgment that the person was part of a group with the same general interest and goal, not recognition of individual accomplishment. That comes from other awards meant just for that purpose.

But one thing’s for sure. What any trophy or award means to an individual has more to do with the values they’ve been given by those raising them, than what some uncle thinks about them when he’s questioning his nephews activities.