Force Play At Plate

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  • CoachL4
    Registered User
    • Mar 2009
    • 118

    Force Play At Plate

    I had a question for you guys. How do you guys teach "Force Play at Home"? I've seen it done many ways and playing it like a first baseman is pretty common. Louisville catching coach teaches to straddle the back of home plate. (see picture)

    I was just curious to see how everyone else teaches it.
    Screen Shot 2012-09-12 at 10.35.55 AM.png
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  • mudvnine
    Super Moderator
    • Apr 2008
    • 9494

    #2
    No, I wouldn't/don't teach players "to straddle the back of home plate".......as it makes it to easy for the sliding runner to tangle up the catcher's feet, preventing him from attempting the 2nd half of a potential ?-2-3 DP.
    In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

    Comment

    • CoachL4
      Registered User
      • Mar 2009
      • 118

      #3
      How would/do you teach it? I see some coaches teach it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71bA3kMcv5k and http://www.littleleaguecoach.org/home.aspx?article=686
      Last edited by CoachL4; 09-12-2012, 11:22 AM.

      Comment

      • mudvnine
        Super Moderator
        • Apr 2008
        • 9494

        #4
        How are the two all that different?

        1.) Get out in front of the plate
        2.) Find the plate with your throwing arm side foot
        3.) Square yourself to the throwing infielder
        4.) Step towards the throw (while staying in contact with the plate)
        5.) Clear yourself from the plate
        6.) Make any additional throws or plays

        I see all of that in those two videos, albeit, maybe just communicated differently.
        In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

        Comment

        • tg643
          Team Veteran
          • May 2010
          • 2784

          #5
          The Louisville coach is demonstrating where the catcher sets up before the play develops. But as soon as the throw occurs he's moving towards the front of the plate to receive the throw. Setting up at the back of the plate gives the catcher mobility based on the quality of the throw. If it's a bad throw being deeper gives him a better angle on the ball. Given a good throw the catcher should be in front of the plate when making the catch and touching of the plate so he can easily step inside the first baseline for a possible double play throw. Standing behind the plate to receive the throw could get the catcher taken out with no possibility of a second throw. Baseball can be a game of inches. Standing at the back of the plate is giving away inches to the base runner.
          Last edited by tg643; 09-12-2012, 11:49 AM.

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          • CoachL4
            Registered User
            • Mar 2009
            • 118

            #6
            Here is the video. I don't see him catching the ball in front of the plate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NPrjGikF_I

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            • Standballdad
              Registered User
              • May 2011
              • 2388

              #7
              Originally posted by CoachL4 View Post
              Here is the video. I don't see him catching the ball in front of the plate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NPrjGikF_I
              This is how it was taught to our catchers during our All-star practices. The coach was a former Number 1 pick as a catcher out of HS. He played many years in MLB. When I first saw how he was teaching it I was a little surprised, but who am I to question it.

              Comment

              • mudvnine
                Super Moderator
                • Apr 2008
                • 9494

                #8
                Originally posted by Standballdad View Post
                This is how it was taught to our catchers during our All-star practices. The coach was a former Number 1 pick as a catcher out of HS. He played many years in MLB. When I first saw how he was teaching it I was a little surprised, but who am I to question it.
                Don't get me wrong, that is a very common method of instruction, and I believe can be beneficial at/in the higher levels of the game.

                However, at the lower levels, I just believe that trying to get a younger, developing catcher, to learn the timing of that play, and with the shorter base paths.....that I'd rather have him "setup" for the catch/force at the plate in advance, instead of trying to time the catch/step on the plate/clear the plate/avoid the runner/make the throw move, all in one fluid movement.

                Just too many timing variables that can play havoc with a younger player IMO. If all we get is the out at the plate, nobody gets slide into, and we don't get anything else, I'm happy.

                Very similar to teaching the DP and footwork for a 2B for a younger player.....get there, get a foot on the bag (preferably the left), CATCH the ball, push off, and make the throw. No trying to "time the throw", catch the ball as you're coming through the bag, and then trying to turn/leap/spin to throw the ball to 1st. Just too many things to go wrong for many reasons with that technique.....they'll have plenty of chances to learn differently as/when they get older.
                In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                Comment

                • Standballdad
                  Registered User
                  • May 2011
                  • 2388

                  #9
                  Very similar to teaching the DP and footwork for a 2B for a younger player.....get there, get a foot on the bag (preferably the left), CATCH the ball, push off, and make the throw. No trying to "time the throw", catch the ball as you're coming through the bag, and then trying to turn/leap/spin to throw the ball to 1st.
                  Yes this is how he explained it.

                  Comment

                  • tg643
                    Team Veteran
                    • May 2010
                    • 2784

                    #10
                    I just watched the video. I don't know how to copy a freeze frame. There are two aspects to the play: 1) where to set up and 2) where to receive the throw. But If you freeze the video just as he catches the ball you will see the beginning of momentum coming through the plate. His feet are already moving. It's not a stretch for the ball. It's all in the timing. Then after receiving the ball the catcher does a quick shuffle step to get both feet and all of his body inside the baseline for a potential throw to first. When my son was catching as a preteen this is exactly how a MLB Gold Glove catcher taught him to make the play.

                    When you get to 0:18 click the video on and off as fast as possible to watch frame by frame. You might have to freeze at 0:17 to see it all. The entire play happens in the 0:18 second.

                    Comment

                    • mudvnine
                      Super Moderator
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 9494

                      #11
                      Here's the funny thing with all three of those live examples in the video.....if you look REAL close, that catcher never touches the plate, but glides right over the top of it, without ever dragging his toe on it.

                      Now granted, that's one of those plays that 99 out of 100 umpires (probably more like 999 out of 1000) will give to the player, but if a younger player starts moving too soon, or his timing is thrown off just a little bit by a bobble out of the glove by the fielder.

                      I've seen more than once, a catcher who's well out in front of the plate by the time he receives the ball, and the runner is called safe at the plate....

                      As in most all coaching, the level and proficiency of the player, must be taken into consideration, before saying...."this is the proper way to teach it".
                      In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                      Comment

                      • tg643
                        Team Veteran
                        • May 2010
                        • 2784

                        #12
                        Mud ... Youth umpires aren't good with "in the neighborhood" calls. These were something I had to learn about in college. A couple of times I got thrown out stealing I snapped at the umpire I wasn't tagged. I got, "The throw beat you, son" responses.

                        Comment

                        • mudvnine
                          Super Moderator
                          • Apr 2008
                          • 9494

                          #13
                          Originally posted by tg643 View Post
                          Mud ... Youth umpires aren't good with "in the neighborhood" calls. These were something I had to learn about in college. A couple of times I got thrown out stealing I snapped at the umpire I wasn't tagged. I got, "The throw beat you, son" responses.
                          Yeah, those are killers, and frustrating as ever......unfortunately, with one (or if you're fortunate enough, sometimes two) umpire(s), that's about all you can expect.

                          What used to frustrate me even more, was when one of my runners got called out like that, but then an inning later, same ump calls one of the other team's players safe on the exact same play, and then has the balls to tell me, "your guy missed the tag". Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!
                          In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                          Comment

                          • CoachL4
                            Registered User
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 118

                            #14
                            Originally posted by tg643 View Post
                            I just watched the video. I don't know how to copy a freeze frame. There are two aspects to the play: 1) where to set up and 2) where to receive the throw. But If you freeze the video just as he catches the ball you will see the beginning of momentum coming through the plate. His feet are already moving. It's not a stretch for the ball. It's all in the timing. Then after receiving the ball the catcher does a quick shuffle step to get both feet and all of his body inside the baseline for a potential throw to first. When my son was catching as a preteen this is exactly how a MLB Gold Glove catcher taught him to make the play.

                            When you get to 0:18 click the video on and off as fast as possible to watch frame by frame. You might have to freeze at 0:17 to see it all. The entire play happens in the 0:18 second.
                            I agree with you 100%. That was my original question for this thread. Do you teach that or teach the other method?

                            Comment

                            • jbolt_2000
                              Registered User
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 1688

                              #15
                              For force plays I teach my players to start on the back of the plate. This allows the catcher to find the plate easier than if they were in front. I find that if they step out in front then look for the bag they tend to "go fishing" with their foot while looking at the play. If they start in the back then they can find the plate easier while still watching the play develop.

                              Having a flat plate instead of an elevated base makes it more difficult for catchers to find the plate so starting behind makes it easier.

                              Once they establish where the plate is they can move to the thrown ball accordingly.

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