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  • Tim Collins pitching mechanics

    For the past few weeks I have been studying lefty relief pitcher Tim Collins pitching motion...the reason I am so interested is that Collins is short ( 5'5") and he throws heat (mid 90s).

    What I've noticed is that his mechanics have changed dramatically over the past few years..

    . When he was in the minors, working with Cressey as a coach, he started with a rocker step from the stretch, he had this exaggerated twisting motion prior to leg lift,, where he would show his back pocket to the batter. This was followed by a Dontrell Willis style leg lift followed by a Lincicum style top/bottom separation. It was an eccentric motion but it worked.


    I would have thought that this type of mechanics would be the key to his velocity, given his short stature....

    But lo and behold, this year, his mechanics have changed significantly..gone is the early hip twist that shows the back pocket to the batter, gone is the exaggerated high leg left, gone is the rocker step from the stretch position.. I read somewhere that the royals organization worked with him to improve control and reduce the number of walks....

    But I guess this tells me pitching mechanics is not what is allowing him to throw heat...

    Has any one looked at this? Any thing I missed? Any insight?

  • #2
    I'd love for someone to post up a gif of the pitching motion. Pitching is my passion and LOVE looking at different styles.

    Comment


    • #3
      A handful of people have god given ability to play their particular sport. Sometimes it can't be explained why certain pitchers can throw hard. And then wonder why someone 6'4", 215 can't break 90.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not sure it's fair to say that Collins was necessarily born with a god given ability to throw hard. This shows some of the hard work/athletic training that went into him going from 82-83mph to where he is now:
        http://www.ericcressey.com/tim-colli...east-for-a-day

        Here's Collins throwing last year:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtXAQziLeg


        And a good discussion of where his velocity comes from around the 5 minute mark of the video in this link:
        http://www.topvelocity.net/forum/mec...brett-merkley/
        Attached Files
        Last edited by mcloven; 09-13-2012, 05:41 AM.

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        • #5
          His leg drive is remarkable. He really loads up and then the front side explodes forward with lots of speed.

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          • #6
            That is the point...He does not throw like that anymore..The video you are showing is his old motion....I will try and post some clips from Youtube.

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            • #7
              Tim Collins pitching motion

              They are not the best clips but they get the point across look at 2010 vs 2012

              Collins 2009

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGfa-...e_gdata_player

              Collins 2010

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSm1P...e_gdata_player

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-cmw...e_gdata_player

              Collins 2011
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzbqR...e_gdata_player

              Collins 2012
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2rI...e_gdata_player

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tg643 View Post
                A handful of people have god given ability to play their particular sport. Sometimes it can't be explained why certain pitchers can throw hard. And then wonder why someone 6'4", 215 can't break 90.
                This is hilarious. Pitching fast is a function of technique, overall weight, and strength/conditioning. It is true that most pitching instructors can't explain Collins' technique, because they have no idea what they are talking about. It is also true that some pitchers, and hitters, have a natural ('God given') technique.

                Originally posted by giantheart View Post
                For the past few weeks I have been studying lefty relief pitcher Tim Collins pitching motion...the reason I am so interested is that Collins is short ( 5'5") and he throws heat (mid 90s).

                What I've noticed is that his mechanics have changed dramatically over the past few years..
                You are on the right track here. When I first started studying pitching, I didn't want to be influenced by instructors/gurus, so, like you, I looked at videos/pictures of smaller/skinnier pitchers.

                --------------
                And a good discussion of where his velocity comes from around the 5 minute mark of the video in this link:
                http://www.topvelocity.net/forum/mec...brett-merkley/
                Brent is on the right track, and then he starts talking about 'fast twitch' muscle fibers. sigh

                ---------------


                Notice how Collins actually uses his back leg to push off (notice the back knee straighten, sorry jbooth - no butt theory here )

                ---------------
                Does anyone else push off like Tim Collins does?
                Last edited by songtitle; 09-13-2012, 08:42 AM.
                efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cressey is only a strength coach I believe. Not to undermine his effect on Collins success (Im a strength coach myself) but dont think he worked with his mechanics. Cressey still works with him in the offseason and has really done a great job with him strength/power wise.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by songtitle View Post

                    Notice how Collins actually uses his back leg to push off (notice the back knee straighten, sorry jbooth - no butt theory here )
                    I initially thought the same thing but I am not sure that is true...in his 2011 technique he seems to lean back a bit during leg lift which forces his knee to bend..it could be pushing off...

                    however, if you look at more recent clips of his pitching motion he no longer bends back and his technique is more like "tall and fall" types that use a wide circular side step before foot plant. you don't see the back knee bend and straighten any more... which makes me question if he ever pushed off in the first place

                    One of many interesting questions in this kids motion...
                    Last edited by giantheart; 09-13-2012, 07:51 AM. Reason: edited for clarity

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                      This is hilarious. Pitching fast is a function of technique, overall weight, and strength/conditioning. It is true that most pitching instructors can't explain Collins' technique, because they have no idea what they are talking about. It is also true that some pitchers, and hitters, have a natural ('God given') technique.



                      You are on the right track here. When I first started studying pitching, I didn't want to be influenced by instructors/gurus, so, like you, I looked at videos/pictures of smaller/skinnier pitchers.



                      He is on the right track, and then he starts talking about 'fast twitch' muscle fibers. sigh

                      Notice how Collins actually uses his back leg to push off (notice the back knee straighten, sorry jbooth - no butt theory here )
                      Can you break down his mechanics in 2010? I was a smaller statured pitcher and threw harder with a big leg kick turning my butt to the catcher making sure my back pocket led the drive. Being a smaller guy the "stand tall, straight kick, throw downhill" mechanic never worked for me. A former coach explained it was due to more potential energy transferred to kinetic energy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here it is. (I would like to see another angle to make sure his back knee is actually straightening, and it's not just an illusion based on the camera angle. But his heel is on the ground, so it seems correct.)

                        pitching- tim-collins-o-5-5-95mph-leg-straighten.gif

                        This is like a BigFoot sighting, this may be an actual leg push off.
                        Last edited by songtitle; 09-13-2012, 09:08 AM.
                        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                          This is hilarious. Pitching fast is a function of technique, overall weight, and strength/conditioning. It is true that most pitching instructors can't explain Collins' technique, because they have no idea what they are talking about. It is also true that some pitchers, and hitters, have a natural ('God given') technique.



                          You are on the right track here. When I first started studying pitching, I didn't want to be influenced by instructors/gurus, so, like you, I looked at videos/pictures of smaller/skinnier pitchers.

                          --------------


                          Brent is on the right track, and then he starts talking about 'fast twitch' muscle fibers. sigh

                          ---------------


                          Notice how Collins actually uses his back leg to push off (notice the back knee straighten, sorry jbooth - no butt theory here )

                          ---------------
                          Does anyone else push off like Tim Collins does?
                          Physical attributes also play into the formula. If it was nothing but mechanics there would be more 5'5" MLB pitchers. There would also be more 5'5" pitchers in the minors emulating would this guy has done. Some people just have the natural ability to throw harder than others. Some people despite having all the size can't throw hard with quality mechanics.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by songtitle View Post
                            Here it is. (I would like to see another angle to make sure his back knee is actually straightening, and it's not just an illusion based on the camera angle. But his heel is on the ground, so it seems correct.)

                            [ATTACH]114761[/ATTACH]

                            This is like a BigFoot sighting, this may be an actual leg push off.
                            I dont know look at the other clips I posted for that time period and afterwards from different angles....

                            I am not against pushing off....if it works...great... but I don't think your clip is really telling the whole story. Just because the back leg straightens doesn't mean he is pushing off the rubber...The bending of the back leg may be a balancing aid for the front leg sweep... he may be a "squat and stride" type of guy rather than a pushing off the mound like Seaver. I am not sure either is significant.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by giantheart View Post
                              I am not against pushing off....if it works...great...
                              He's doing a real leg push. What most people describe as a leg push... is not. It can't, because the knee isn't straightening.

                              but I don't think your clip is really telling the whole story.
                              Of course. Collins is also doing a few of the other keys to increased velocity.

                              Just because the back leg straightens doesn't mean he is pushing off the rubber...The bending of the back leg may be a balancing aid for the front leg sweep... he may be a "squat and stride" type of guy rather than a pushing off the mound like Seaver.
                              You're losing me here. If he simultaneously straightens his back knee, and propels rapidly forward, then by definition he is pushing off.
                              efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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