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  • Hello Doc,
    The genesis of the drill I am talking about (it's not really a drill, just an exercise to feel a certain action that many have not felt before) was in this thread titled "Rear Leg Action" that I pointed you to in an early post of this thread. Here is the link to the thread again. Some good discussion about both throwing and hitting and the actions seen and opinions on what causes them.
    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...ear-Leg-Action

    Here is the link to the specific post where I post some clips of hitters I feel exhibit the rear leg action I am talking about and first attempt to put words to the "drill" along with a GIF of David Wright
    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...65#post2060165

    I understand there are nuances and incomplete descriptions of what is actually happening biomechanically given my limitations in the area, but from the feed back I have gotten it certainly is enough of a starting point for people to get the idea, and for those who try it to feel what I am talking about and recognize it is different than previous "methods" of swinging a bat they have tried.

    Anyway, that is a whole 'nuther thread, one you should give a once over for there are some good discussions and posts made by the various "camps" if you will.

    Within this thread, here are links to the posts where I talk about the "drill" and do my best to explain the movements as I do them and see them. Granted I am no bio mechanical expert so if some such self proclaimed person who is can do these and help provide the correct words that would be great

    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...47#post2076047

    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...61#post2076161 (really just a repost of the original)

    Again, not the most biomechanically sound wording I know, but the words provided and the video provided have been sufficient for many laypeople with far less advanced anatomical / biomechanics expertise than yourself to understand and perform. So give it a shot. Thank you very much for your time.

    Cheers,
    NoonTime
    @noontimegifs

    Comment


    • 1st-I have never posted here..and have rarely posted anywhere else..But I do plan on being involed more and plan on maintaining my own forum..

      3-4 people on a message board are not bugging me. Questions are being asked and I want to answer them..

      It seems that as soon as I ask you to provide or even just point me to a video description of what you believe you want the thread to go away.

      Just do your best.. Get out the camera and present a full description of what is happening.

      1 student hmmm...
      Last edited by Dr. Chris Yeager; 10-16-2012, 09:54 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by azmatsfan View Post
        I think I've done a pretty good job of describing what's really happening in regards to this "stretch". Mud does have it wrong. In the Longoria clip you can clearly see the external rotation of the rear leg creating pressure against the ground. With no resistance this will force the front hip to fly open as he strides, but you can see the front hip fight to stay close until his front foot lands. There is a group on here that when trying to perform this motion are feeling this tension and not realizing how it's caused, or are trying to repeat this movement and are doing it incorrectly. (meaning not the same as elite hitters are doing it). It seems there are many on here that take what a couple others say as gospel regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. it's hard to take some opinions and explanations seriously when it's clear there was no independent thought put into the opinion, and the explanation is simply repeating phrases they've read.
        Not sure Longo is the poster video child for the feeling of that move...he is more flexible in the hips than most, even though he is still pushing in..he just wants to coil more. This I know..Mickelson's go to swing thought is imagine a flashlight is pointing the rear knee to the ball...crank around it and keep the light on the ball..its the same feeling.

        Comment


        • Wow, went away for a little bit and came back to, "The Thread Of The Absurd"....

          Let's see, a guy is told how to do something, does it, understands/feels what he's told and agrees with it, but then says what he "thinks" he's doing is just the opposite of what he explained to him. Amazing.....

          Guy gives his opinion of what he thinks he sees in a high level swing, explains his opinion with a skeleton video of the individual movements, doesn't understand how the sequencing and simultaneous movements of those individual movements into a kinetic action can change movements, yet calls his opinions "facts", simply because he has "researched", as if others have not......or that they didn't actual use the same sciences almost daily for over 25 years. Just Baffling.....

          Ah look, a reasonable response....

          Originally posted by Dr. Chris Yeager View Post
          Encinitas/Noontime/Mudvine--can we get a quick demo of the body movemets you are teaching along with a simple explination of how the major bones are being moved to perform the actions...
          "DCY", I've been off surfing for the past three days, and will continue to be out for the next two days.....so while I think a video request is fair since you've provided so many, I don't have access to my video equipment, however, I will go ahead and put one together either Thursday evening or Friday when I'm home and time permits.

          Carry on boys, the comedy aspect from some is certainly entertaining, and much appreciated.
          In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

          Comment


          • Thank you Dave---In the meantime, Is there no video available anywhere that explains ya'lls (southerner here) theory with a simple explination of how the major bones are being moved to perform the actions...

            Also is the movement that encinitas is performing in the clip above consistent with what you teach wrt hand action?

            Comment


            • Well perhaps two students, we'll see if the younger gets into it again.

              I have made a commitment and trust me it's very hard, but until both my kids are mashing I've not offered to help anyone else. That is to me I have a lot to offer but refuse to use my knowledge until both kids are showing mash capability. I cannot seem to get the shift, and throw the barrel out of son #2, I pounded that in when he was a young Yeager disciple and hard to break. Son #1 did fine with what I teach, but let's go another route.

              I want to take the time to explain how I would help this guy because he is close.

              adams1.gif adams2.gif


              #1 - I like his barrel action and hands. Wouldn't touch it. By far the best the guys I know you worked with that have had a cup-o-joe (Barfield, PaulMac, Macias etc.). I am sure there are others I am just going with what I know
              #2 - Barrel position good. nothing to mess with there.
              #3 - Where is his corner? There is no Stretch-n-Fire here. Play the clip in slo-mo. His hands are going with his rear knee. No separation.

              In short he needs to learn to resist with his back. When you separate correctly:
              Your weight should stay over top of the rag-wring, the fight in the rear leg. The COG will lower in a strider, some might call it the HIPS dropping, or the rebalancing. If your tension is correct at the point where the femoral head meets up with the Acetabulum, the leg will start to turn while the hip is still loaded. In other words you are using the resistance to NOT rotate or swing, as the leg starts to go.


              How do you accomplish this?
              - I would try to get him to learn to stride while staying back. He doesn't have a way to arrest his forward momentum. If he uses inward pressure, and coils around to the full range of motion of the back hip, he'll have an easier time not sliding his weight forward.
              - Lumbar Lordosis. Create a very curved low back. As if you are pushing your butt out. (maybe he's got that now, but I am going to tell him).
              - He needs to feel scapular retraction. In particular he's got to find a way to clamp down. Between the scap and the spine, see if he can use the Rhomboids as way to pinch (possibly Trapezius also) but I'll let you body types figure out that stuff.
              - The BACK must resist rearward, while the leg pushes forward. Create the condition that allows the fight in the hip socket.


              So there you go. A pretty simple fix. He needs to use his back and learn resistance.

              In your opinion if I am off-base, then what causes Yaz's back knee to turn well ahead of the hands, and why do so few teaching systems have this action? When Yaz's "hips drop" the leg turns. Only the correct tension allows that.

              adams_yaz.gif

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dr. Chris Yeager View Post
                Thank you Dave---In the meantime, Is there no video available anywhere that explains ya'lls (southerner here) theory with a simple explination of how the major bones are being moved to perform the actions...
                None more than the MLB players that I've posted, as all we're talking about, are our opinions of the biomechanical movements of a high level hitter, described by our words.

                Don't expect me to explain how I teach these movements in the video, I'm merely going to give a visual representation of the biomechanical movements that I've written in this thread and many times over here in the past.

                I'll also show why Booth and azmatsfan's opinions are incorrect (and I guess through "sympatico", since you like their posts so much, yours as well).

                Also is the movement that encinitas is performing in the clip above consistent with what you teach wrt hand action?
                With regards to the video of him that you posted in this thread....."no".
                In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Encinitas View Post
                  Well perhaps two students, we'll see if the younger gets into it again.

                  I have made a commitment and trust me it's very hard, but until both my kids are mashing I've not offered to help anyone else. That is to me I have a lot to offer but refuse to use my knowledge until both kids are showing mash capability. I cannot seem to get the shift, and throw the barrel out of son #2, I pounded that in when he was a young Yeager disciple and hard to break. Son #1 did fine with what I teach, but let's go another route.

                  I want to take the time to explain how I would help this guy because he is close.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]115952[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]115953[/ATTACH]


                  #1 - I like his barrel action and hands. Wouldn't touch it. By far the best the guys I know you worked with that have had a cup-o-joe (Barfield, PaulMac, Macias etc.). I am sure there are others I am just going with what I know
                  #2 - Barrel position good. nothing to mess with there.
                  #3 - Where is his corner? There is no Stretch-n-Fire here. Play the clip in slo-mo. His hands are going with his rear knee. No separation.

                  In short he needs to learn to resist with his back. When you separate correctly:
                  Your weight should stay over top of the rag-wring, the fight in the rear leg. The COG will lower in a strider, some might call it the HIPS dropping, or the rebalancing. If your tension is correct at the point where the femoral head meets up with the Acetabulum, the leg will start to turn while the hip is still loaded. In other words you are using the resistance to NOT rotate or swing, as the leg starts to go.


                  How do you accomplish this?
                  - I would try to get him to learn to stride while staying back. He doesn't have a way to arrest his forward momentum. If he uses inward pressure, and coils around to the full range of motion of the back hip, he'll have an easier time not sliding his weight forward.
                  - Lumbar Lordosis. Create a very curved low back. As if you are pushing your butt out. (maybe he's got that now, but I am going to tell him).
                  - He needs to feel scapular retraction. In particular he's got to find a way to clamp down. Between the scap and the spine, see if he can use the Rhomboids as way to pinch (possibly Trapezius also) but I'll let you body types figure out that stuff.
                  - The BACK must resist rearward, while the leg pushes forward. Create the condition that allows the fight in the hip socket.


                  So there you go. A pretty simple fix. He needs to use his back and learn resistance.

                  In your opinion if I am off-base, then what causes Yaz's back knee to turn well ahead of the hands, and why do so few teaching systems have this action? When Yaz's "hips drop" the leg turns. Only the correct tension allows that.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]115954[/ATTACH]
                  Love the righty Yaz clip! Son of a potato farmer..Williams' prodigy...He turned his hips to the pitcher..was quick.. just like Teddy.

                  Comment


                  • Ya know, I guess in the meantime I can post these clips......




                    Group one:



                    Group two:



                    Group three:



                    .....and I'm only going to explain them all with two words, "barrel path".

                    Now I'm not advocating hitting with one leg, but unless one "sequences" the two properly, they'll not match "Group one's" barrel path.....that is, if one agrees that one of the other two groups, looks closer to that of "Group one"......who I think we would all agree should be the goal.


                    Hang ten all (SoCaler here ), off to bed....."dawn patrol" in the morning,
                    mud -

                    PS. Yes, I have worked with two of the youth hitters, so I thought posting two of mine and two of yours would be fair.....if you're opposed to that, please let me know and I'll take them down.

                    BTW, this was 36 days later............which was over a year ago, I continued to work with him, and he continued to refine his swing.
                    Last edited by mudvnine; 10-16-2012, 11:10 PM.
                    In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

                    Comment


                    • Encinitas:Where is his corner? There is no Stretch-n-Fire here. Play the clip in slo-mo. His hands are going with his rear knee. No separation.

                      In short he needs to learn to resist with his back. When you separate correctly:
                      Your weight should stay over top of the rag-wring, the fight in the rear leg. The COG will lower in a strider, some might call it the HIPS dropping, or the rebalancing. If your tension is correct at the point where the femoral head meets up with the Acetabulum, the leg will start to turn while the hip is still loaded. In other words you are using the resistance to NOT rotate or swing, as the leg starts to go.


                      How do you accomplish this?
                      - I would try to get him to learn to stride while staying back. He doesn't have a way to arrest his forward momentum. If he uses inward pressure, and coils around to the full range of motion of the back hip, he'll have an easier time not sliding his weight forward.
                      - Lumbar Lordosis. Create a very curved low back. As if you are pushing your butt out. (maybe he's got that now, but I am going to tell him).
                      - He needs to feel scapular retraction. In particular he's got to find a way to clamp down. Between the scap and the spine, see if he can use the Rhomboids as way to pinch (possibly Trapezius also) but I'll let you body types figure out that stuff.
                      - The BACK must resist rearward, while the leg pushes forward. Create the condition that allows the fight in the hip socket.
                      Get out the camera and describe how the bones move to accomplish this then how you would communicate it to a professional player..

                      I would especially like to see how these are performed. Some real gems here:

                      "Where is his corner? There is no Stretch-n-Fire here"

                      "The BACK must resist rearward, while the leg pushes forward. Create the condition that allows the fight in the hip socket."

                      "the leg will start to turn while the hip is still loaded. In other words you are using the resistance to NOT rotate or swing, as the leg starts to go."

                      Comment


                      • Forgot to quote
                        Last edited by Encinitas; 10-16-2012, 11:21 PM. Reason: no quote

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cbb View Post
                          Get out the camera and describe how the bones move to accomplish this then how you would communicate it to a professional player..

                          I would especially like to see how these are performed. Some real gems here:

                          "Where is his corner? There is no Stretch-n-Fire here"

                          "The BACK must resist rearward, while the leg pushes forward. Create the condition that allows the fight in the hip socket."

                          "the leg will start to turn while the hip is still loaded. In other words you are using the resistance to NOT rotate or swing, as the leg starts to go."

                          Good lord people can you look at a video and come to a conclusion without someone making a youtube?
                          Last edited by Jake Patterson; 10-17-2012, 06:01 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dr. Chris Yeager View Post
                            No game--just want to get full description of the "swing" that hyp-enc-mud (you?) are advocating before I post my video..

                            I have hours upon hours describing what I teach and why...I don't think my request is unreasonable...

                            I will answer your question in the video...Send me your name and phone number and I can call you tomorrow and address your questions immediately.


                            Why is this so difficult for you? I am not looking for a video explAnation, I just want to know if you agree or disagree with the post Mud made that I re-posted later in the thread. I also just want a YES or NO response to my question about Macias matching the other hitters you mentioned. Posts 159 and 161. One southerner to another. COME ON MAN!!

                            Last edited by mr. potato head; 10-17-2012, 06:56 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by cbb View Post
                              Get out the camera and describe how the bones move to accomplish this then how you would communicate it to a professional player..

                              I would especially like to see how these are performed. Some real gems here:

                              "Where is his corner? There is no Stretch-n-Fire here"

                              "The BACK must resist rearward, while the leg pushes forward. Create the condition that allows the fight in the hip socket."

                              "the leg will start to turn while the hip is still loaded. In other words you are using the resistance to NOT rotate or swing, as the leg starts to go."
                              Are you asking what these terms mean, or do you want an explanation of each one?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mudvnine View Post


                                Group two:


                                Just curious, if he does this drill on ice, during the initial push, which way do you think the rear foot would rotate?

                                Comment

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