The bunt and slash

[mudvnine]

So should we avoid teaching batters to hit the ball up the middle, to hit the ball hard right at the pitcher's forehead?

And "as long as the hitter gives a recognition sign" is a pretty big if for a 14 year old-it doesn't ensure he will go brain dead 5 seconds later. Wilson Ramos almost killed Roger Bernandina this year on a squeeze at the mlb level.

And the "slash" part of the bunt and slash is a choppy semi-flat footed swing and not a regular swing. I guess we could argue until the cows came home. Like I said, I don't have a problem with leagues banning the slash-just pointing out that it is not all that dangerous relative to everything else.

OK, the bold is a good point, but I'd rather we agree that we, "don't have a problem with leagues banning the slash".....just in case one gets squared up, and all odds line up that might just happen to catch a kid in the chops with a ball off the bat when he happens to be standing 50' or possibly even less to the hitter.

[mudvnine]

"Hit it hard up the middle" is a great thought and helps one hit the ball hard everywhere. But this is another instance where it is part of normal game-play. Although I have never heard the instruction to hit it at the pitcher's forehead..is that a cue you use?

Well, not necessarily those words, but I do tell them to "hit it where it's pitched"......and if that's "down the middle", than that means "hit it right back up the middle", and that's typically where the pitcher just happens to be standing.

So indirectly, I guess I'm guilty as charged........

[omg]

"Hit it hard up the middle" is a great thought and helps one hit the ball hard everywhere. But this is another instance where it is part of normal game-play. Although I have never heard the instruction to hit it at the pitcher's forehead..is that a cue you use?

It's a common phrase, "hit the ball hard at the pitcher's forehead". Charley Lau Sr said it 45 years ago among others.Do you have a problem with it? A batter should try to hit line drives to the middle of the field.

As you say, hit it hard up the middle is a good and common phrase. Of course it is part of normal game-play. Every time a pitcher throws a pitch from 60 feet
he should and has to be ready for a hard hit ball at him. And every 36 games when a bunt and slash is called a first or third baseman playing 70 feet from the batter should be ready to catch a hard hit ball.

[raptor]

Well, not necessarily those words, but I do tell them to "hit it where it's pitched"......and if that's "down the middle", than that means "hit it right back up the middle", and that's typically where the pitcher just happens to be standing.

So indirectly, I guess I'm guilty as charged........

Nah, everyone teaches up the middle or hit where it is pitched, but not using the hit the pitcher in the head terminology..right..um..Mud?
One of our pitchers got hit in the middle of the chest on a rocket which dropped straight down, next to the kid who dropped like a sack of hammers. He was ok, now wears the heart shield. My kid hit a pitcher square on his planted kneecap, it made a sickening sound. It turns out the leg was prosthetic, so he was in less pain than he would have been otherwise. There have been some wicked shots up through the box this fall already, and this is just the 11's..next year its the same small 50 70 field and these kids will be throwing and hitting even harder.

[omg]

OK, the bold is a good point, but I'd rather we agree that we, "don't have a problem with leagues banning the slash".....just in case one gets squared up, and all odds line up that might just happen to catch a kid in the chops with a ball off the bat when he happens to be standing 50' or possibly even less to the hitter.

Right, it's fine to ban it. No problems, just pointing out it's overdoing it a bit. We could also teach those third basemen not to be halfway to the plate. Hell, come to think of it, the runner at third is in danger. Of course he has a helmet. Me, I'd rather have the glove.

[omg]

Nah, everyone teaches up the middle or hit where it is pitched, but not using the hit the pitcher in the head terminology..right..um..Mud?
One of our pitchers got hit in the middle of the chest on a rocket which dropped straight down, next to the kid who dropped like a sack of hammers. He was ok, now wears the heart shield. My kid hit a pitcher square on his planted kneecap, it made a sickening sound. It turns out the leg was prosthetic, so he was in less pain than he would have been otherwise. There have been some wicked shots up through the box this fall already, and this is just the 11's..next year its the same small 50 70 field and these kids will be throwing and hitting even harder.

Yes, it's very dangerous for the pitcher and I've seen a lot of nasty stuff where kids were lucky to be alive. No exaggeration. Admittedly, I've never seen anyone get hit in their prosthetic leg although I did see Harrison Ford punch a one-armed man in the mouth. I'm not out for hurting anyone but I think hitting line drives up the middle is well accepted.

[raptor]

Yes, it's very dangerous for the pitcher and I've seen a lot of nasty stuff where kids were lucky to be alive. No exaggeration. Admittedly, I've never seen anyone get hit in their prosthetic leg although I did see Harrison Ford punch a one-armed man in the mouth.

You should sell HM the rights to that story man, or at least tell us!

[Roothog66]

We've been through the whole discussion before and it is known that I use the butcher boy play extensively. Some coaches don't like it and they let me hear about it. If they want to throw at my kids, as TG would have them do, I would argue that one play is legal, the other isn't. One is intended to do damage, the other simply has it as a byproduct possibility. rarely do the charging corner infielders come much closer than the pitcher who is far more vulnerable. However, once last year at a W/S event, I had the call on and almost panicked when the third baseman cam to within TEN FEET of home plate. Luckily, my kid drove the ball through the hole that the shortstop left to cover third and it wasn't close to the third baseman. The other coach threw a fit and wanted my kid thrown out of the game. The ump had to calm him down and explain that there was no rule against it. Where they played (michigan, maybe?) the rules routinely prohibited it. In leagues like that, is it common for 3b to charge that close? I guess if that were common in the baseball I see, I would never call it and I would completely understand some of the really strong opinions against it, but I just never see kids charge that far up the line.

[omg]

We've been through the whole discussion before and it is known that I use the butcher boy play extensively. Some coaches don't like it and they let me hear about it. If they want to throw at my kids, as TG would have them do, I would argue that one play is legal, the other isn't. One is intended to do damage, the other simply has it as a byproduct possibility. rarely do the charging corner infielders come much closer than the pitcher who is far more vulnerable. However, once last year at a W/S event, I had the call on and almost panicked when the third baseman cam to within TEN FEET of home plate. Luckily, my kid drove the ball through the hole that the shortstop left to cover third and it wasn't close to the third baseman. The other coach threw a fit and wanted my kid thrown out of the game. The ump had to calm him down and explain that there was no rule against it. Where they played (michigan, maybe?) the rules routinely prohibited it. In leagues like that, is it common for 3b to charge that close? I guess if that were common in the baseball I see, I would never call it and I would completely understand some of the really strong opinions against it, but I just never see kids charge that far up the line.

Sounds like the Michigan coach was taking advantage of the no slash rule (he thought) and having his boy get ridiculously close to the batter in a bunt situation. To get to 10 feet he had to be pretty close to begin with so, in this instance, the no slash rule actually made things more dangerous.

I know this is all a lot of talk about nothing really important. But in yesterday's 14 year old game that had the slash and the suicide squeeze the 3b coach yelled at his players-twice- "wear it, wear it" on inside pitches they were stumbling out of the way of. I don't believe in this but apparently everybody else thinks it's okay. I mean, what legal recourse could a coach possibly have if his player was injured by an hbp and the coach is teaching them to get hit? Is this common in the 12u and below as well?

[omg]

Can't really compare those situations, as a team will never put on the "let's hit a popup in that one spot where there could be confusion and an injury" play.

I don't know, if you've seen some of my teams hit you might accuse me of putting this play on regularly. And then TG643 would be drilling,drilling, drilling: "Hey that's 2 pops to right center in a row, the next guy is GOING DOWN."

[CoolHandLuke]

So when is a good time to call this play? What is the criteria a coach looks for as opposed to letting the batter hit, some sort of bunt, or the hit and run?

Stay classy, don't do it. You'll find most well coached teams won't pull stunts like that. It's border-line bush and it reflects negatively on the coach. When you call that play, you're knowingly and purposely putting a kid/kids in danger of a serious injury. For what, a lousy single. Not only will the other team and general spectators think your trash, half the parents on your own team will quietly share that opinion.

[Standballdad]

We've been through the whole discussion before and it is known that I use the butcher boy play extensively. Some coaches don't like it and they let me hear about it. If they want to throw at my kids, as TG would have them do, I would argue that one play is legal, the other isn't. One is intended to do damage, the other simply has it as a byproduct possibility. rarely do the charging corner infielders come much closer than the pitcher who is far more vulnerable. However, once last year at a W/S event, I had the call on and almost panicked when the third baseman cam to within TEN FEET of home plate. Luckily, my kid drove the ball through the hole that the shortstop left to cover third and it wasn't close to the third baseman. The other coach threw a fit and wanted my kid thrown out of the game. The ump had to calm him down and explain that there was no rule against it. Where they played (michigan, maybe?) the rules routinely prohibited it. In leagues like that, is it common for 3b to charge that close? I guess if that were common in the baseball I see, I would never call it and I would completely understand some of the really strong opinions against it, but I just never see kids charge that far up the line.

My only question is, is it that important to call such a play when the consequences could be catastrophic? or even deadly? Too me its not worth the risk no matter how small you might think it is. The advantage a slash and bunt might give too a hitter is just not worth it. Let the hitter swing away. Especially with the use of aluminum bats. I would not want that on my conscience if something did happen.

[omg]

Geez fellows, read the posts. "Most..won't pull stunts like that"? "Deadly"? "Catastrophic"? "Trash"? "Bush"? What are we gonna do, stop throwing curves because they're scary and you have to aim that at the batter's ear and it's dangerous because, uh, what if one of them doesn't actually break or something?

It's kind of fun to hear your perspectives, though.

[JJA]

Interesting takes. I actually see it from time to time and it really hasn't been a big deal. It's not like the #4 batter is slashing, it's usually the lead off little guy who isn't always the most powerful hitter. We had a lead off lefty hitter in our league who was an excellent bunter. He would draw the third baseman in with a fake bunt, pull it back and then dunk a little floater over the third basemans head for a base hit. It was a very effective technique that I admired the kid for. Excellent bat control. I don't remember anyone getting on him for it.

[omg]

Interesting takes. I actually see it from time to time and it really hasn't been a big deal. It's not like the #4 batter is slashing, it's usually the lead off little guy who isn't always the most powerful hitter. We had a lead off lefty hitter in our league who was an excellent bunter. He would draw the third baseman in with a fake bunt, pull it back and then dunk a little floater over the third basemans head for a base hit. It was a very effective technique that I admired the kid for. Excellent bat control. I don't remember anyone getting on him for it.

Pretty much my take. Never crossed my mind that it is inappropriate and I've run it by a few in my circle who were surprised there is an issue.

I think what we have here is a "Reefer Madness" phenomena. Since it's Halloween, I'll be on the lookout on youtube for " Dr. Bunt and Mr. Slasher": "He's deadly, he's catastrophic, he's trashy.And he's coming to get your children on a ball field near you."