Kinesiology question + experiment

[NoonTime]

Buh Bye BBF!

[mudvnine]

COG changed once you moved your elbow/arm medially.

[NoonTime]

Buh Bye BBF!

[mudvnine]

....my right leg is trying to inwardly (medially) rotate, I am pulling back (laterally) with my right hip and core and rear shoulder and arms.....Stalemate.. nothing moving.

By your scenario, you balanced on either side of you COG, you changed that "balance" by lowering your arm and while still "pulling back", just to with the same force, so your leg has greater force and moves you forward at basically the same rate as your elbow lowers.....in theory, don't know how fast you actually moved, could have been slightly faster or slower.

[raptor]

I just tried NTEII (noontime experience 2) and duplicated it easily. I don't feel it has to do with the center of gravity but rather to the fact that we are used to letting the stalemate break when we lower the elbow in a normal swing..so the movement is so engrained for people who swing a lot that your feet and legs make it happen from muscle memory. I found if I actually thought about keeping the chair still I could lower my elbow and do it..but it felt very unnatural.

[jbooth]

I just tried NTEII (noontime experience 2) and duplicated it easily. I don't feel it has to do with the center of gravity but rather to the fact that we are used to letting the stalemate break when we lower the elbow in a normal swing..so the movement is so engrained for people who swing a lot that your feet and legs make it happen from muscle memory. I found if I actually thought about keeping the chair still I could lower my elbow and do it..but it felt very unnatural.

I think you and mudvnine are both right to a certain extent. I also think that the rear oblique is partly holding the stalemate and when you lower the elbow, there is natural tendancy to release the oblique. Now, you've changed COG and released tension, and you move.

But, like you, if I concentrated on not releasing the oblique, I could drop the elbow and nothing else happened.

[songtitle]

This thread will be fun to watch. Kudos to noon.

[NoonTime]

Buh Bye BBF!

[jbooth]

So a force applied from the leg... inwardly pressured.... fighting against the pullback of the upper.... meeting in the right foot on the ground?.... in a position of stalemate... not moving.

You are saying by releasing something in that upper pressure pullback and changing my COG... and keeping that same inward pressure in the leg the whole time... I will move/turn forward?

Interesting.

Yes, but that doesn't apply to how the back leg works in a swing. It does apply to some extent to what's happening to the mid and upper torso.

It contributes some evidence to what I have said all along about the upper half. The obliques hold the ribcage in place while the hips turn. The rear oblique releases and the front one contracts; firing the shoulders into rotation, while the hips are shifting and rotating.

It shows that the "stretch in the lower back side" that you and others often mention; is the rear oblique. Not, muscles in the leg.

[NoonTime]

Buh Bye BBF!

[jbooth]

Yes we know jbooth. Not how it works in your swing. Impossible for it to happen any other way than what you say. If by some miracle plain as day examples are given to show how what you say is impossible, is indeed possible after all, then it's just not how it works in "a swing". Have fun with your swing jbooth. We're going to have to go on without you.
Cheers,
NoonTime

It isn't MY swing. For the thousandth time.

The muscle forces and bone positions applied and set while sitting on a chair, are not the same as when you stand on one leg. Sure, I understand the feel you're trying to get, but your conclusions as to the forces occurring in the drill/experiment are wrong.

Look, if you feel that and teach that and get results great. Just stop telling me that the bio-mechanics that I state are wrong. They are not.

You just can't seem to understand that you aren't feeling all of the muscles. You are aware of the ones you are focusing on. You are unaware that to do what you do involves other muscles that you don't seem to feel, or know about. To put it simply, you don't understand kinetic chains.

You say you're not a bio-mechanics expert, yet you create a drill and then claim to know exactly how it works. Isn't that a contradiction?

[NoonTime]

Buh Bye BBF!

[Jake Patterson]

I think Jim has made it clear he is not speaking about his swing.

[NoonTime]

Buh Bye BBF!

[Broccoli1]

Ok experts in all things anatomical and kinesological... (for everyone else it's just the experiment)

I am sitting in a swivel chair (chair that turns back and forth without the base moving). My left foot is off the ground, my right leg is trying to inwardly rotate like a champ! right foot is on the ground but I am applying strong inward pressure from up high on the femur.

My upper body is mimicking a "load".... my right elbow is up, I am pulling back with my right hip and core and rear shoulder and arms.

Stalemate.. nothing moving.

If I keep the pullback in the upper, but lower my elbow, my hips turn forward.

a) can you duplicate this?
b) why do my hips turn forward when all I have done is lower my elbow?

Cheers,
NoonTime

a. yes
B. because you have released the "load" somewhat- it takes energy to keep the arm up, once you lower it the energy is absorbed by the Right leg and the force is applied to the Chair. You've broken the stalemate.



You don't need to raise your elbow up or even have your left foot up in the air.- try the same experiment with your elbow down but with the same "Load". You can't turn at all. Relax the upper load and you can turn left right all day long.