Fall Ball 2012

[phillyinnj]

My son's first actual season on the 60/90 field has officially been closed...he did excellent:

At Bats - 28
Runs - 8
Hits - 10
Doubles - 1
Triples - 0
Home Runs - 0
RBIs - 9
Base On Balls - 6
Strike Outs - 3
Stolen Bases - 10
Caught Stealing - 0
On Base Percentage (OBP) - 0.486
Slugging (SLG) - 0.393
On Base Plus Slugging (OPS) - 0.879
Average (AVG) - 0.357

Majority of his hits were line drives (if it was an error or fielders choice, it was recorded as such....nice little app for the iphone)

Best part is that he was playing against 13-14 yr olds and he himself just turned 12 back in June...I'm hoping this fall season was something he can build on for next year.
His pitching, on the other hand, wasn't that good...while at times he did ok, there were just way too many walks...he wants to take some pitching lessons this winter so hopefully that could do some good.

Anyways, great overall season...looking forward to next year!

[tradosaurus]

60 ft is a good distance for a 12 y.o. pitcher. I think there is a risk of hurting your son's arm at this distance.

Personally I wouldn't let my 13 y.o. pitch on a 60/90, which he got to play a few high school summer games.

The batting average looks encouraging on a 60/90 field. Will your son be playing on 60/90 as a 13 y.o.?

If he is competing well against 13/14 (league ball?) I would try to find a upper level age appropriate 2013 travel team to play.

[skipper5]

60 ft is a good distance for a 12 y.o. pitcher. I think there is a risk of hurting your son's arm at this distance.

.

Trado,
Your comment makes sense, but isn't supported by my experience.
I coached 4 sons through the transition from small diamond to 60/90.
Three times from 46/60 to 60/90; once from 50/70 to 60/90.
Here in my town we make the transition during fall of their 12yo year.
There were no arm injuries on the teams I coached, or the other 3 or 4 teams in our "graduating 12's" division, in any of those four seasons.
As you would expect, quite a few of the "baseball-age" 12yo pitchers were "biologically" younger than 12....pitching from 60 ft for the first time.
Just my 2 cents, based on my experience; not scientific.

[tg643]

The stats are irrelevant. They are subjective to how well other kids the same age are adapting in the field. Something I had to emphasize to a handful of kids was how far they could run and it's still their ball. What's important is you feel he swung the bat well. As far as pitching, just focus on throwing strikes with proper mechanics. When I ran a 13U fall ball team after the kids were done with LL I told them throw strikes and let the defense do the rest. The change in distance affected their off speed stuff. I didn't want anyone altering their menchanics, knowing they would be bigger and stronger in the spring.

[tradosaurus]

Trado,
Your comment makes sense, but isn't supported by my experience.
I coached 4 sons through the transition from small diamond to 60/90.
Three times from 46/60 to 60/90; once from 50/70 to 60/90.
Here in my town we make the transition during fall of their 12yo year.
There were no arm injuries on the teams I coached, or the other 3 or 4 teams in our "graduating 12's" division, in any of those four seasons.
As you would expect, quite a few of the "baseball-age" 12yo pitchers were "biologically" younger than 12....pitching from 60 ft for the first time.
Just my 2 cents, based on my experience; not scientific.

I just said there was a "risk". Personally I'm glad my son won't be pitching at 60 ft until he is 15. 14U Dixie pitches at 54 ft and our 14U travel team has elected to stay at 54 ft next season.

I don't understand why there is such a rush to push a young kid on a big field.

Patience is a virtue in this sport.

[phillyinnj]

The stats are irrelevant. They are subjective to how well other kids the same age are adapting in the field.

I understand they are irrelevant, especially with fall ball...but it's a good feeling to see how hard he has hit the ball and the level of play he has had at 12yrs of age (against older and bigger kids)...

Travel teams are just too dam expensive around here 1500-2000 for spring alone. I think the babe ruth and middle school will be good enough for now...if at 14-15 he is still playing at a high level, then maybe I will look into something more.

[scorekeeper]

I just said there was a "risk". Personally I'm glad my son won't be pitching at 60 ft until he is 15. 14U Dixie pitches at 54 ft and our 14U travel team has elected to stay at 54 ft next season.

I’m not quite sure how you see there’s any more of a risk at 60’ than 54’ or 45’. Assume the kid is throwing the ball at a release velocity of 60MPH on the 45’ field. Moving him to 54’ or 60’ isn’t going to change that release velocity one iota. The velocity of the ball when it reaches the catcher will certainly slower at the longer distances, and the ball will definitely need more arc for it to get to the same spot in the strike zone, but that’s it.

It takes no more effort to throw at 60’ than any of the other pitching distances. What I did with my son when he was 11-12, was to have him practice off the 60’ mound when he wasn’t with the team. The reason was, I thought it would improve his control because the azimuth error would have to be less, and it sure seemed to do that.

I don't understand why there is such a rush to push a young kid on a big field.

Patience is a virtue in this sport.

I don’t think it’s a rush at all. All that generally happens is, the stats fall off, and the pitcher can’t be as dominating as before. But that isn’t a problem either because the hitters experience some of the same problems. It may be easier to hit the ball, but it’s a longer run to reach the bases. So in the end, relatively speaking, everything’s the same, unless you’re all caught up in the numbers.

[raptor]

in the end, relatively speaking, everything’s the same, unless you’re all caught up in the numbers.

But you know SK.. I AM all caught up in the numbers! LOL. I'd say Philly has good cause to be pumped about his kid based on those stats. Not a ton of power obviously with just one XBH, but it looks like he has speed (10 SB in only 8 hits and 6BB), and a good eye with patience (2 to 1 BB/K ratio and under 5 AB per BB). But if he is playing up and for a first season on the big field as a kid who could play 12's next spring I'd say it's a very successful start. How many of those hits were driven over the infielders' heads and got down, versus beating out infield hits?

[tradosaurus]

I’m not quite sure how you see there’s any more of a risk at 60’ than 54’ or 45’. Assume the kid is throwing the ball at a release velocity of 60MPH on the 45’ field. Moving him to 54’ or 60’ isn’t going to change that release velocity one iota. The velocity of the ball when it reaches the catcher will certainly slower at the longer distances, and the ball will definitely need more arc for it to get to the same spot in the strike zone, but that’s it.

It takes no more effort to throw at 60’ than any of the other pitching distances. What I did with my son when he was 11-12, was to have him practice off the 60’ mound when he wasn’t with the team. The reason was, I thought it would improve his control because the azimuth error would have to be less, and it sure seemed to do that.

I don’t think it’s a rush at all. All that generally happens is, the stats fall off, and the pitcher can’t be as dominating as before. But that isn’t a problem either because the hitters experience some of the same problems. It may be easier to hit the ball, but it’s a longer run to reach the bases. So in the end, relatively speaking, everything’s the same, unless you’re all caught up in the numbers.

The risk I see is that a pitcher will want to throw with the same velocity at the plate. Moving back 6 ft (from 54 to 60 ft) is a big jump IMO. Also confidence could suffer if the pitcher gets pounded because his velocity at the plate goes down.

I think its easy for us parents to want to push our kids to big field to early so we can brag how our 10 y.o. is competing with high schoolers.

[tradosaurus]

I understand they are irrelevant, especially with fall ball...but it's a good feeling to see how hard he has hit the ball and the level of play he has had at 12yrs of age (against older and bigger kids)...

Travel teams are just too dam expensive around here 1500-2000 for spring alone. I think the babe ruth and middle school will be good enough for now...if at 14-15 he is still playing at a high level, then maybe I will look into something more.

I think it's good to keep stats as it helps you monitor your son's progress.

Just don't get too hung up on stats in league ball as the competition in travel ball is, in most cases, far ahead what league ball can offer.

For instance my son played 14U league ball last season in conjunction with 13U travel ball (AAA/majors level). His B.A. for league ball was 1.000 up until the last 3 games (using a wooden bat) and his B.A. in travel ball was somewhere around .250.

[tg643]

I understand they are irrelevant, especially with fall ball...but it's a good feeling to see how hard he has hit the ball and the level of play he has had at 12yrs of age (against older and bigger kids)...

Travel teams are just too dam expensive around here 1500-2000 for spring alone. I think the babe ruth and middle school will be good enough for now...if at 14-15 he is still playing at a high level, then maybe I will look into something more.

If you think teams are too expensive in the area you are looking in the wring places. 13U academy teams are a waste of money. I ran a team with kids from MontCo and Bucks for $600 per summer. So did other dads who knew the game. We played about 50 tournament games. Except for our annual weekend getaway everything was a day trip to ECTB and Berkshire. Now there's also Diamond Nation. Was your son a LL or CR all-star. Most of the better one's were chased down to be on teams when my son was 13U. I listed twenty District 22 kids and got thirteen of them. Over the next coouple of years some kids from Bucks joined the team.

[phillyinnj]

If you think teams are too expensive in the area you are looking in the wring places. 13U academy teams are a waste of money. I ran a team with kids from MontCo and Bucks for $600 per summer. So did other dads who knew the game. We played about 50 tournament games. Except for our annual weekend getaway everything was a day trip to ECTB and Berkshire. Now there's also Diamond Nation. Was your son a LL or CR all-star. Most of the better one's were chased down to be on teams when my son was 13U. I listed twenty District 22 kids and got thirteen of them. Over the next coouple of years some kids from Bucks joined the team.

I guess I need to look over in PA then, as around here they are a little out of my price range...the TSE league teams are a drive from here, so it would be a little tuf to get too. He didn't want to play with the 11 year old districts last year, so when we tried to make a 12U team for districts, we ran into a little resistance.

Thing is, last year during middle school ball, he was 11yrs old and the field looked waaayyyy too big for him...he got 17 at bats and only had one hit. Fast forward to this fall and it looks like the field is fitting just right and he is really smacking the ball hard....the field doesn't look to big for him anymore...that's the exciting part.

He will not be playing 12U next year either.

[scorekeeper]

But you know SK.. I AM all caught up in the numbers! LOL.

Yes you are, and that’s to your credit. But I’ve never taken you as one who would open your wrists because his kid’s BA dropped 100 points or Ks per game dropped because of a change like moving to the big field.

I'd say Philly has good cause to be pumped about his kid based on those stats. Not a ton of power obviously with just one XBH, but it looks like he has speed (10 SB in only 8 hits and 6BB), and a good eye with patience (2 to 1 BB/K ratio and under 5 AB per BB). But if he is playing up and for a first season on the big field as a kid who could play 12's next spring I'd say it's a very successful start. How many of those hits were driven over the infielders' heads and got down, versus beating out infield hits?

Indeed he does.

I don’t think how he got the hits has anything to do with how successful he might be later on. The main thing to me is, can he put the ball in play.

[scorekeeper]

The risk I see is that a pitcher will want to throw with the same velocity at the plate. Moving back 6 ft (from 54 to 60 ft) is a big jump IMO. Also confidence could suffer if the pitcher gets pounded because his velocity at the plate goes down.

How many 12YO’s understand the difference between release velocity and final velocity, and even for those that do, how on earth would they be able to tell? Unless daddy’s been gunning every single pitch all his life and only recording the final velocity, the only way the pitcher would be able to tell is if kids he used to overpower were suddenly putting the ball in play. If that bothers them, someone’s given him a poor concept of what pitching is all about.

I dount any kid in that position is going to get “POUNDED” by his peers. Maybe by older and more mature kids, but not by very many other 12YOs.

I think its easy for us parents to want to push our kids to big field to early so we can brag how our 10 y.o. is competing with high schoolers.

How in the world could a 10YO be considered as “competing with high schoolers”, merely by playing with other 10YOs on a big field? If there is anyone like that, and I’m sure there is someplace, their entire concept of youth baseball is whacked, and I wouldn’t give them any more than a passing thought.

[scorekeeper]

I think it's good to keep stats as it helps you monitor your son's progress.

Just don't get too hung up on stats in league ball as the competition in travel ball is, in most cases, far ahead what league ball can offer.

For instance my son played 14U league ball last season in conjunction with 13U travel ball (AAA/majors level). His B.A. for league ball was 1.000 up until the last 3 games (using a wooden bat) and his B.A. in travel ball was somewhere around .250.

Actually, if all the numbers were kept together, they would average out very well. It would be little different from facing a poor TB team and a very good one. I segregate regular season HS games for fall and summer ball, not because the competition’s any different. But because the coach doesn’t coach the same way.

During summer and fall ball, he often bats the same kid twice in an inning or out of order so he can get more ABs, or does other things that don’t go by the rules in order to develop his players. I don’t feel those numbers should be incorporated into the regular season numbers because of that.