Why do we do this?

[Roothog66]

In a recent post, a newbie posting for the first time asked our opinion on whether we would appeal the winning home run of a ten-year-old. Because he mentioned that it was a tournament, more than one poster used the opportunity to voice their opinions on the absurdity of travel ball. Why do we do this? By its very nature, a board like this requires new blood to survive. While a few will stay here for years, others will gravitate off as soon as their children age. When we belittle a new poster's sports choices for his child, how long will he stay? If someone wants to start yet another post about how ridiculous travel ball is and how great things were back in the old days of LL-only baseball, feel free. I'll join in. But it is self-defeating to do so at the expense of new posters.

[Bolts-Baseball]

Probably why...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4303

:hyper:

[tg643]

In a recent post, a newbie posting for the first time asked our opinion on whether we would appeal the winning home run of a ten-year-old. Because he mentioned that it was a tournament, more than one poster used the opportunity to voice their opinions on the absurdity of travel ball. Why do we do this? By its very nature, a board like this requires new blood to survive. While a few will stay here for years, others will gravitate off as soon as their children age. When we belittle a new poster's sports choices for his child, how long will he stay? If someone wants to start yet another post about how ridiculous travel ball is and how great things were back in the old days of LL-only baseball, feel free. I'll join in. But it is self-defeating to do so at the expense of new posters.

Gee! I apologize for providing my honest opinion on participating in a 10U World Series. This nonsense is more about the parents than the adults. In just being involved with community based 10U travel I watch parents brood after games while their kids, the participants had hit the concession stand and moved on with their day.

I was fortunate to have the following exchange with my son when he was ten. I learned a lot from it. It was after his community based travel soccer team won the A League Bi-County championship in a soccer hotbed.

Me: What did your coach say after the game?
Son: He said we played well. What's for lunch?
Me: He must have said more than that!
Son: He said we did our spacing well. May I have a PlayStation for Christmas?

[Roothog66]

Gee! I apologize for providing my honest opinion on participating in a 10U World Series. This nonsense is more about the parents than the adults. In just being involved with community based 10U travel I watch parents brood after games while their kids, the participants had hit the concession stand and moved on with their day.

I was fortunate to have the following exchange with my son when he was ten. I learned a lot from it. It was after his community based travel soccer team won the A League Bi-County championship in a soccer hotbed.

Me: What did your coach say after the game?
Son: He said we played well. What's for lunch?
Me: He must have said more than that!
Son: He said we did our spacing well. May I have a PlayStation for Christmas?

I think I've had the same conversation many times over with my kid. Usually the answer is the same as when I ask him what he learned today in school: "nothing."

I have no problem with the opinion. In fact, that subject makes for a very good discussion and thread on its own merit. My gripe is with how we (and I've found myself doing it, too) often jump all over a well-meaning poster who asks a simple question and, rather than answer the question he asked, we jump on something else he said in order to extend an argument that wasn't the purpose of the thread. In this case, this guy was posting for the first time, asking for opinions on a particular issue and he got nailed with responses that basically criticized his participation in tournament ball. I can't remember my first post, but I may have never come back if I had been answered like this...Yes, I would have.

Interesting note. I do, however, remember my first post on Eteamz board several years ago. The subject matter was radar guns (don't start that up again) and you lambasted me! However, I'm a lawyer by trade, and therefore possessed of thick skin, so it didn't bother me.

[mr. potato head]

I think I've had the same conversation many times over with my kid. Usually the answer is the same as when I ask him what he learned today in school: "nothing."

I have no problem with the opinion. In fact, that subject makes for a very good discussion and thread on its own merit. My gripe is with how we (and I've found myself doing it, too) often jump all over a well-meaning poster who asks a simple question and, rather than answer the question he asked, we jump on something else he said in order to extend an argument that wasn't the purpose of the thread. In this case, this guy was posting for the first time, asking for opinions on a particular issue and he got nailed with responses that basically criticized his participation in tournament ball. I can't remember my first post, but I may have never come back if I had been answered like this...Yes, I would have.

Interesting note. I do, however, remember my first post on Eteamz board several years ago. The subject matter was radar guns (don't start that up again) and you lambasted me! However, I'm a lawyer by trade, and therefore possessed of thick skin, so it didn't bother me.

What make of suit do you wear?

Don't you dare object and state my question is irrelevant....

[JJA]

I think I've had the same conversation many times over with my kid. Usually the answer is the same as when I ask him what he learned today in school: "nothing."

I have no problem with the opinion. In fact, that subject makes for a very good discussion and thread on its own merit. My gripe is with how we (and I've found myself doing it, too) often jump all over a well-meaning poster who asks a simple question and, rather than answer the question he asked, we jump on something else he said in order to extend an argument that wasn't the purpose of the thread. In this case, this guy was posting for the first time, asking for opinions on a particular issue and he got nailed with responses that basically criticized his participation in tournament ball. I can't remember my first post, but I may have never come back if I had been answered like this...Yes, I would have.

Interesting note. I do, however, remember my first post on Eteamz board several years ago. The subject matter was radar guns (don't start that up again) and you lambasted me! However, I'm a lawyer by trade, and therefore possessed of thick skin, so it didn't bother me.

I don't think that he was criticized for his participation in travel ball. On the other hand, the answer to his question is absolutely dependent on whether he is in competitive travel ball or not. If you're in a competitive travel team environment, it absolutely is valid to appeal the kids home run. Most high school coaches I know would do it, and I equate competitive travel ball - where winning is absolutely emphasized - to high school ball. If it were rec ball, I don't think it is appropriate. I think that's what most of the posters were trying to say. Like I said in that thread, swim with the sharks and sometimes you get bitten. It's simply part of being in a competitive travel ball environment.

Heck, I would add that many dads would tout that being in such an environment is exactly why they're in it, that it helps toughen up the kids, get them used to the real world. For better or worse, it is what it is.

[Roothog66]

What make of suit do you wear?

Don't you dare object and state my question is irrelevant....

Objection. Outside the scope of direct. Men's Warehouse. I'm a public defender. No expensive suits for me.

[mr. potato head]

Objection. Outside the scope of direct. Men's Warehouse. I'm a public defender. No expensive suits for me.

I object to your objection.... btw, expect a pm from the judge about this thread. Call it a hunch, lol.....

[Roothog66]

I don't think that he was criticized for his participation in travel ball. On the other hand, the answer to his question is absolutely dependent on whether he is in competitive travel ball or not. If you're in a competitive travel team environment, it absolutely is valid to appeal the kids home run. Most high school coaches I know would do it, and I equate competitive travel ball - where winning is absolutely emphasized - to high school ball. If it were rec ball, I don't think it is appropriate. I think that's what most of the posters were trying to say. Like I said in that thread, swim with the sharks and sometimes you get bitten. It's simply part of being in a competitive travel ball environment.

There is some validity to that. However, the answers didn't deal with that distinction, but rather the nature of TB in general. I'm extremely competitive and will use the rules to my advantage quite often in ways that many would call bush. However, I'll admit that seeing a young kid hit a walk off homer over the fence usually brings a tear to my eye even when it has been the other team, beacause I knw how special that kid is feeling right at the moment. having done it myself as a kid, its a feeling that even decades later ranks right up there as one of the best moments of a persons life, even if it is some meaningless 10yo game. I just couldn't bring myself to crush a kid like that. Now, once they're high school age...I might crush them anyway.

[JJA]

There is some validity to that. However, the answers didn't deal with that distinction, but rather the nature of TB in general. I'm extremely competitive and will use the rules to my advantage quite often in ways that many would call bush. However, I'll admit that seeing a young kid hit a walk off homer over the fence usually brings a tear to my eye even when it has been the other team, beacause I knw how special that kid is feeling right at the moment. having done it myself as a kid, its a feeling that even decades later ranks right up there as one of the best moments of a persons life, even if it is some meaningless 10yo game. I just couldn't bring myself to crush a kid like that. Now, once they're high school age...I might crush them anyway.

My experience with "high level" travel teams and tournaments is that they are hypercompetitive, and what the original poster stated didn't strike me as unusual for that environment, but would be unusual for a rec league (but I have seen it in a rec league). Many travel team coaches in our area use their success in these types of tournaments as advertisments for their travel team programs, so they play to win at all costs. Again, maybe folks didn't state it this clearly, but that's what I took from the posts, that something that struck the original poster as unusual - and for good reason - really isn't than unusual in that environment. At least that's what I meant in my responses to him.

[tg643]

I don't think that he was criticized for his participation in travel ball. On the other hand, the answer to his question is absolutely dependent on whether he is in competitive travel ball or not. If you're in a competitive travel team environment, it absolutely is valid to appeal the kids home run. Most high school coaches I know would do it, and I equate competitive travel ball - where winning is absolutely emphasized - to high school ball. If it were rec ball, I don't think it is appropriate. I think that's what most of the posters were trying to say. Like I said in that thread, swim with the sharks and sometimes you get bitten. It's simply part of being in a competitive travel ball environment.

Heck, I would add that many dads would tout that being in such an environment is exactly why they're in it, that it helps toughen up the kids, get them used to the real world. For better or worse, it is what it is.

To compare 10U travel with high school ball is laughable.

[Jake Patterson]

In a recent post, a newbie posting for the first time asked our opinion on whether we would appeal the winning home run of a ten-year-old. Because he mentioned that it was a tournament, more than one poster used the opportunity to voice their opinions on the absurdity of travel ball. Why do we do this? By its very nature, a board like this requires new blood to survive. While a few will stay here for years, others will gravitate off as soon as their children age. When we belittle a new poster's sports choices for his child, how long will he stay? If someone wants to start yet another post about how ridiculous travel ball is and how great things were back in the old days of LL-only baseball, feel free. I'll join in. But it is self-defeating to do so at the expense of new posters.

Root,
Good post. My first duty should have been to welcome the new forumer... For that I apologize.

I feel from my perspective it is difficult to seperate the two issues when presented with many of the questions we deal with here. In some ways it changes the rules as they apply to children and it removes them from what is reasonable...

As ecupiratehts suggested - had he left out the fact that it was a "World Series" tourney - would the answers have been different?? In my mind yes, because we can only provide answers in some perspective framework. I am uncertain how to answer otherwise.

Would I have appealed - NO, but I wouldn't have been there in the first place.

PS: I don't use the "good ole days" arguement when discussing TB... I feel it's a child development question.

[Roothog66]

Root,
Good post. My first duty should have been to welcome the new forumer... For that I apologize.

I feel from my perspective it is difficult to seperate the two issues when presented with many of the questions we deal with here. In some ways it changes the rules as they apply to children and it removes them from what is reasonable...

As ecupiratehts suggested - had he left out the fact that it was a "World Series" tourney - would the answers have been different?? In my mind yes, because we can only provide answers in some perspective framework. I am uncertain how to answer otherwise.

Would I have appealed - NO, but I wouldn't have been there in the first place.

PS: I don't use the "good ole days" arguement when discussing TB... I feel it's a child development question.

Jake,

I've always found your arguments against TB to have merit. The "good ole days" line wasn't directed at anyone who actually responded (in fact, though, I preferred the good old days approach). In fact, I love the threads on some of these issues. It just often gets frustrationg when a thread gets off track and I really cringe when I see a new guy's first post treated as if it were thrown out there by Chris, TG, or a regular poster. Most of us have learned to be ready to defend every detail of our post. I like seeing new blood come on board. Not for feeding, but for new ideas and viewpoints. For the most part, I think you do a good job of keeping these things on track.

[songtitle]

In my experience, I have seen the exact same 'over-zealousness' issues in rec as in travel. I'm not sure why this is being viewed in a TB prism.

The worst cheating that I ever saw was in a T-Ball rec game. The 2nd worst cheating (by a local umpire) was at a 13U travel tourney. The loudest parents that I ever heard (and some were kicked out) was at a 11/12 rec game.