Working the Tee!

[Giode]

About two years ago I posted a video of my then 5-year old son hitting. Received some excellent feedback, that I have referred back to often. The below video is him hitting off of a tee. Recently there have been some minor issues with stepping slightly out and forward (not a full "stepping in the bucket"). We decided to go back to the basics, and fix the problem by focusing on just hitting off of a tee for a while. He has great hand eye coordination, so were going to make the mechanical aspects of his swing more of a priority in the off season. Hopefully with enough reps, new muscle memory will be created.

I'd love to hear people's opinions of his progress, and what he still needs to work on fixing. I really do listen to ALL the advice people take the time to give. So, feel free to chime in if inclined!

Here's the original video from two years ago (for those who are interested):

[pcarnette]

Recently there have been some minor issues with stepping slightly out and forward (not a full "stepping in the bucket").

Nine times out of ten stepping out is caused by fear of a pitched baseball, and, while it is important that you understand this is perfectly normal and nothing for him or you to be ashamed of, if it is a fear of the pitched ball issue, you're wasting your time on the tee because I bet the problem will creep right back up on him in live BP or in a game.

What he probably needs a is lot of repetition with pitched baseballs. Gradually increase speed as he gets comfortable. You many want to put a wooden plank behind his heels so he can feel himself stepping out.

[pthawaii]

Geeze, has it really already been 2 years? Time flies! So your boy is 7 now? I love how aggressive he is to the ball and has a high finish. Because of that (and the fact that I'm a newbie DVD dad), it's tough for me to think of advice because I don't want to suppress his aggressiveness. That said, I'll give it a go

Opportunities that I see include his initial set up (back foot pointed rearward), hips could start rotating earlier, some bat drag, and arm bar. Keeping in mind he's 7, I'm not really sure how much you want to try to address now. I'd caution to go slowly. Get his back foot pointed straight across to the other side of the batter's box (maybe that will help him get his hips through at least). Work on getting the tee closer to him so he doesn't get so extended in his arms at contact (needs to keep his hands closer to his chest as he swings), and put the tee more in front so he hits the ball closer to his front foot (right now it appears he's making contact at his front hip).

That's just my 2 cents, keep in mind, I'm not a hitting expert, just a dad with an 8 year old.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Giode]

Hey PT, appreciate the 2 cents! I know you're another one of those dads that spends a lot of time on here. Whether you're a newbie to this, or seasoned, I appreciate anyone who takes the time to comment.

You hit the nail on the head! We are having an issue with his back foot and the direction it's pointing. I never noticed this until we started using a tee recently. He's hit thousands upon thousands of baseballs this summer, and I have to wonder if he's been doing this all along. It's not the kind of thing you notice from pitching distance. I am working on helping him with this, and he's improved, but it is still a habit that will take more time to fix. I've noticed that when his back foot points rearward, he doesn't open his hips as fully and drive that back knee forward. As I've been on top of him about correcting it, his hips do seem to open more. Well spotted. Has anyone else dealt with this before?

Bat drag is something I hadn't considered in all honesty. I always thought that bat drag was identified by the bottom elbow being way out in front of the pitch, in which the bat is almost more pulled than swung - which to me doesn't *seem* like a problem for him. If it was though, I'd want to know. He usually makes direct, hard contact with thrown baseballs.

Definitely noted on the tee's positioning. He gets excited, and often rushes without paying attention to exactly where he should be standing.

As far as the hips are concerned, we've worked on him keeping his hips closed until that front foot lands, and then starting to open. Is that correct? I figure it has to be like pitching, in that energy needs to work it's way up through the chain, but nothing happens before that front foot lands. With that said, is he opening his hips too late? I wonder if this could be related to the rearward facing back foot?

[Giode]

Nine times out of ten stepping out is caused by fear of a pitched baseball, and, while it is important that you understand this is perfectly normal and nothing for him or you to be ashamed of, if it is a fear of the pitched ball issue, you're wasting your time on the tee because I bet the problem will creep right back up on him in live BP or in a game.

What he probably needs a is lot of repetition with pitched baseballs. Gradually increase speed as he gets comfortable. You many want to put a wooden plank behind his heels so he can feel himself stepping out.

I hear ya! I think initially he was scared of baseballs (being the first year we have primarily worked with real baseballs), and developed a sub-conscience defense mechanism. For the most part, that fear has subsided somewhat as the summer went on, but I could never get him to completely correct the (slight) step-out issue he was having, no matter how many pitches I pitched him. The brain of a seven year old turns off the minute the ball is pitched, and goes into auto-pilot. It's not a dramatic step-out, and some would even say acceptable, but it still bugged me.

Even though he may well revert, I think with enough repetitions, he might be able to reprogram the impulse to step-out. I guess we'll see! I was reading somewhere on this forum where someone said that it takes like 5000+ repetitions before an action becomes instinct. I think that's interesting if true!

[pcarnette]

I hear ya! I think initially he was scared of baseballs (being the first year we have primarily worked with real baseballs), and developed a sub-conscience defense mechanism. For the most part, that fear has subsided somewhat as the summer went on, but I could never get him to completely correct the (slight) step-out issue he was having, no matter how many pitches I pitched him. The brain of a seven year old turns off the minute the ball is pitched, and goes into auto-pilot. It's not a dramatic step-out, and some would even say acceptable, but it still bugged me.

I understand. My son is 10, and we spent the summer correcting this problem by pitching to him with every increasing velocity while putting a wooden plank (a 2x4 will work) behind his heels. The plank gives immediate feedback when the step out occurs whether it is consciously or subconciously. It's a constant, neutral reminder he's stepping out. Eventually, the fear disappates and the player gets tired of being tripped up by the board.

[pthawaii]

Hey PT, appreciate the 2 cents! I know you're another one of those dads that spends a lot of time on here. Whether you're a newbie to this, or seasoned, I appreciate anyone who takes the time to comment.

You hit the nail on the head! We are having an issue with his back foot and the direction it's pointing. I never noticed this until we started using a tee recently. He's hit thousands upon thousands of baseballs this summer, and I have to wonder if he's been doing this all along. It's not the kind of thing you notice from pitching distance. I am working on helping him with this, and he's improved, but it is still a habit that will take more time to fix. I've noticed that when his back foot points rearward, he doesn't open his hips as fully and drive that back knee forward. As I've been on top of him about correcting it, his hips do seem to open more. Well spotted. Has anyone else dealt with this before?

Bat drag is something I hadn't considered in all honesty. I always thought that bat drag was identified by the bottom elbow being way out in front of the pitch, in which the bat is almost more pulled than swung - which to me doesn't *seem* like a problem for him. If it was though, I'd want to know. He usually makes direct, hard contact with thrown baseballs.

Definitely noted on the tee's positioning. He gets excited, and often rushes without paying attention to exactly where he should be standing.

As far as the hips are concerned, we've worked on him keeping his hips closed until that front foot lands, and then starting to open. Is that correct? I figure it has to be like pitching, in that energy needs to work it's way up through the chain, but nothing happens before that front foot lands. With that said, is he opening his hips too late? I wonder if this could be related to the rearward facing back foot?

Yeah, that's how I feel. Appreciate any input that will help me and my son on our journey. The back foot issue could be a long time fixing, my son still has this problem 3 years after first mentioning it to him. But I also take a "gentle" approach to fixing things, figuring he's young.

I'm not sure what the official definition of "bat drag" is, but I think of it if your back elbow gets infront of your hands during the swing. Again, I'm guessing a few years before you work that out as my journey and progress has been slow around this. As a young player, you can still hit the ball really hard with bat drag, your son is proof of that . Another way to think of it is that his back elbow should be near his back hip through the first part of the swing, but his back elbow moves too far foward too early.
drag.JPG

As for the hips, he's not always rotating them at toe touch. See screen shot, he's already through contact and his hips are still mostly closed.
swing2.JPG

Again, I really like his approach at the plate and his aggressive swing. So take my advice with a grain of salt and make sure you introduce changes slowly so he stays aggressive (my opinion). I'm starting to believe that a lot of the things I pointed out will be easier to fix later as he matures (as evidenced by my son who struggles with some of these problems).

Good luck!

[Giode]

I understand. My son is 10, and we spent the summer correcting this problem by pitching to him with every increasing velocity while putting a wooden plank (a 2x4 will work) behind his heels. The plank gives immediate feedback when the step out occurs whether it is consciously or subconciously. It's a constant, neutral reminder he's stepping out. Eventually, the fear disappates and the player gets tired of being tripped up by the board.

Glad to hear that you've had success with the plank! Fixing issues with youth is like stopping a leak on a damn...new issues/leaks just pop up somewhere else

[Giode]

Yeah, that's how I feel. Appreciate any input that will help me and my son on our journey. The back foot issue could be a long time fixing, my son still has this problem 3 years after first mentioning it to him. But I also take a "gentle" approach to fixing things, figuring he's young.

I'm not sure what the official definition of "bat drag" is, but I think of it if your back elbow gets infront of your hands during the swing. Again, I'm guessing a few years before you work that out as my journey and progress has been slow around this. As a young player, you can still hit the ball really hard with bat drag, your son is proof of that . Another way to think of it is that his back elbow should be near his back hip through the first part of the swing, but his back elbow moves too far foward too early.
[ATTACH]116671[/ATTACH]

As for the hips, he's not always rotating them at toe touch. See screen shot, he's already through contact and his hips are still mostly closed.
[ATTACH]116672[/ATTACH]

Again, I really like his approach at the plate and his aggressive swing. So take my advice with a grain of salt and make sure you introduce changes slowly so he stays aggressive (my opinion). I'm starting to believe that a lot of the things I pointed out will be easier to fix later as he matures (as evidenced by my son who struggles with some of these problems).

Good luck!

I actually spent quite a bit of time since your post, looking into the bat drag issue and learning more about it. After watching the clip in slow-mo I also saw what you saw above. I appreciate you pointing that out! Seems like a very hard problem to fix, based off of different threads on the topic. I had almost forgotten, but a year ago I purchased the Insider Bat, but never really used it. Now seems like a good time, and I've read a lot of very positive reviews on it correcting arm angles. I'll report back with results.

I think the hip thing will correct itself once the back foot angle does. At least that's the hope. It sounds like your son has also dealt with this, which tells me that maybe it's another common problem among youth. Lots of time to work on these things, but I want him to get the correct basics now, while he's young and malleable.

we've worked on a lot this summer, like coiling, keeping his weight back etc...With each change I've introduced, his aggressive approach has stayed the same. He went from hitting the ball slightly out of the infield in the beginning of the summer, to nearly hitting the ball out (of a 200 ft fence) on quite a few occasions. He really enjoys it, and as long as that's the case, I'll continue trying to teach him.

Thanks again PT!

[Swing Coach]

Giode,

Quick and powerful....nice. Teach him to stand close to the tee, work the fence drill dry and with live underhand toss and you will see the drag disappear and his swing will be much shorter...where it needs to be.

SC

[Baseball gLove]

Giode,

Quick and powerful....nice. Teach him to stand close to the tee, work the fence drill dry and with live underhand toss and you will see the drag disappear and his swing will be much shorter...where it needs to be.

SC

I think the fence drill is a bad teach. If anything it teaches hands/ knob to the ball.