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Baserunning tips on stealing 3B vs pitcher with good inside move

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  • Baserunning tips on stealing 3B vs pitcher with good inside move

    Any base running tips on teaching the kids on how to avoid getting picked off on 2B against pitchers with a good inside or spaghetti move. I coach a 10U travel team and saw a ton of kids get faked out on this move last year. Key off pitchers front knee? When the front knee moves towards the catcher, OK to steal? Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by bweagles View Post
    Any base running tips on teaching the kids on how to avoid getting picked off on 2B against pitchers with a good inside or spaghetti move. I coach a 10U travel team and saw a ton of kids get faked out on this move last year. Key off pitchers front knee? When the front knee moves towards the catcher, OK to steal? Thanks.
    Let the Pitcher do any thing they want. Just make sure your base runner is equal distant from the bag as the closest middle infielder. If the other team is dumb enough to park a middle infielder on the bag your batter should have a nice hole to hit the ball through.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bweagles View Post
      Any base running tips on teaching the kids on how to avoid getting picked off on 2B against pitchers with a good inside or spaghetti move. I coach a 10U travel team and saw a ton of kids get faked out on this move last year. Key off pitchers front knee? When the front knee moves towards the catcher, OK to steal? Thanks.
      If R2 doesn't intend to steal on the pitch, and gets picked off by an inside move because he has an excessive primary, or begins his secondary too early, that's one issue, and easy to rectify.

      If R2 intends to steal on the pitch, and gets picked off by an inside move, that's another issue, and is more complicated.

      It seems you're referring to the latter--R2 intends to steal.

      1. Did R2 have an excessive primary, which alarmed (or simply annoyed) the pitcher and/or tipped off his intentions to the pitcher?
      2. Or, was it an obvious stealing situation? (the most obvious being: one out, and a fast/smart baserunner on second).
      3. Or, did the pitcher just get lucky and decide ahead of time to perform an inside move?

      If it's #1 or #2, and if it's happening too often (in your opinion), then you can tweak your team's approach.

      The least likely scenario is that the pitcher--as he began his pitching motion--noticed that R2 was stealing and decided on-the-fly to perform an inside move.

      Edited to add: Also, with exuberant 10 yr olds, it seems plausible that they might be flaunting their intention to steal, as opposed to playing possum (i.e., taking a less aggressive primary--which reduces the odds of an inside move--but getting a better jump).
      Last edited by skipper5; 12-30-2012, 07:20 AM.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Baseball gLove View Post
        If the other team is dumb enough to park a middle infielder on the bag your batter should have a nice hole to hit the ball through.
        I've never coached 10u open-bases baseball.

        But I watched some video of a 10u open-bases tournament. Both teams parked the 2B on the bag when there was a runner at second.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by skipper5 View Post
          If R2 doesn't intend to steal on the pitch, and gets picked off by an inside move because he has an excessive primary, or begins his secondary too early, that's one issue, and easy to rectify.

          If R2 intends to steal on the pitch, and gets picked off by an inside move, that's another issue, and is more complicated.

          It seems you're referring to the latter--R2 intends to steal.

          1. Did R2 have an excessive primary, which alarmed (or simply annoyed) the pitcher and/or tipped off his intentions to the pitcher?
          2. Or, was it an obvious stealing situation? (the most obvious being: one out, and a fast/smart baserunner on second).
          3. Or, did the pitcher just get lucky and decide ahead of time to perform an inside move?

          If it's #1 or #2, and if it's happening too often (in your opinion), then you can tweak your team's approach.

          The least likely scenario is that the pitcher--as he began his pitching motion--noticed that R2 was stealing and decided on-the-fly to perform an inside move.

          Edited to add: Also, with exuberant 10 yr olds, it seems plausible that they might be flaunting their intention to steal, as opposed to playing possum (i.e., taking a less aggressive primary--which reduces the odds of an inside move--but getting a better jump).
          Which is why I started the thread a few months ago about banning the inside move. It's unfair. Nobody has had any real substantive answers. It's basically just a guess on the runner's/coaches/pitcher's part. Yes, a good runner can detect an inside move ( usually a little different head movement/a little body lean back) but the whole inside move thing is just a time wasting/unfair thing. It should be-if the runner gets too far off you call a pick or you rely on the catcher to throw the runner out. Basic baseball, not luck of the draw.
          Major Figure

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          • #6
            It has not bothered my son who plays NCAA rules; didn't bother him playing NHSF or scout ball either. To him it's a part of baseball. He's taking third again.
            Last edited by Baseball gLove; 12-30-2012, 10:17 PM.

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            • #7
              My guys who can steal bases are trying to take 3rd every time in the proper situation. They do not get an overly aggressive primary. Every time the pitcher lifts his lead foot they turn to go to 3rd and read. So, on every pitch they are breaking to 3rd. If they do not get a good jump, they slam on the brakes. If the pitcher does an inside move. It is easy enough to read and they slam on the brakes and get back. Each time they brake and get back they are gaining information. I had one guy this year get picked at 2nd on an inside move.

              With this aggressive nature. The pitcher tends to make more mistake pitches.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HYP View Post
                My guys who can steal bases are trying to take 3rd every time in the proper situation. They do not get an overly aggressive primary. Every time the pitcher lifts his lead foot they turn to go to 3rd and read. So, on every pitch they are breaking to 3rd. If they do not get a good jump, they slam on the brakes. If the pitcher does an inside move. It is easy enough to read and they slam on the brakes and get back. Each time they brake and get back they are gaining information. I had one guy this year get picked at 2nd on an inside move.

                With this aggressive nature. The pitcher tends to make more mistake pitches.
                By turn do you mean they cross-over and fake a steal?
                Major Figure

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HYP View Post
                  My guys who can steal bases are trying to take 3rd every time in the proper situation. They do not get an overly aggressive primary....
                  With this aggressive nature. The pitcher tends to make more mistake pitches.
                  HYP,
                  My approach is similar. When we're at bat, I'm constantly scanning for opportunities to steal third.
                  Conversely, when we're in the field, it can be unsettling to coach against teams that are trying to take 3rd every time (in the proper situation).
                  Thankfully, for whatever reason, a lot of opposing coaches don't seem to prioritize stealing third base.

                  We practice it and talk about it much more than most teams. Since practice time is limited--it's a finite quantity--there are other important things that we are practicing less. I happen to believe that time spent on learning to steal third yields a greater marginal rate of return than time spent on many more traditional areas of practice.

                  PS: Though the OP is referring to 10u baseball, my remarks concern 60/90 baseball.
                  Last edited by skipper5; 12-31-2012, 06:57 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by omg View Post
                    By turn do you mean they cross-over and fake a steal?
                    Yes, always stealing. Just stopping when they can't. Also, they try to walk into it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skipper5 View Post
                      HYP,
                      My approach is similar. When we're at bat, I'm constantly scanning for opportunities to steal third.
                      Conversely, when we're in the field, it can be unsettling to coach against teams that are trying to take 3rd every time (in the proper situation).
                      Thankfully, for whatever reason, a lot of opposing coaches don't seem to prioritize stealing third base.

                      We practice it and talk about it much more than most teams. Since practice time is limited--it's a finite quantity--there are other important things that we are practicing less. I happen to believe that time spent on learning to steal third yields a greater marginal rate of return than time spent on many more traditional areas of practice.

                      PS: Though the OP is referring to 10u baseball, my remarks concern 60/90 baseball.
                      I am also talking about 60/90 high school age. At 10u you can take 3rd almost at will.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HYP View Post
                        I am also talking about 60/90 high school age. At 10u you can take 3rd almost at will.
                        Which is why the inside move is so effective. We used it a lot at 10u and 9u. Less at 11u and up, but it still comes in handy. Especially at 10u you can stop a lot of teams from stealing third with an inside move. Recently, I've even added a move (can rarely be used, but is VERY useful and sure to have the opposing coach go ballistic). With a runner at first (and first only) that I know is going to steal and has an excellent chance of success due to speed, weak catcher, etc., I will pull an inside move to second. If he takes off we've got him picked. If he doesn't it's a balk. I wish I had thought of this when the kids were younger and sb's were a given. The downside would be almost nill when the stolen base rate is 85+%. Of course I keep this in the back pocket for late game strategy. I last used it over Thanksgiving in Vegas and it caused a commotion with the other coaching staff sure enough that it was a balk to file a protest.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Roothog66 View Post
                          Which is why the inside move is so effective. We used it a lot at 10u and 9u. Less at 11u and up, but it still comes in handy. Especially at 10u you can stop a lot of teams from stealing third with an inside move. Recently, I've even added a move (can rarely be used, but is VERY useful and sure to have the opposing coach go ballistic). With a runner at first (and first only) that I know is going to steal and has an excellent chance of success due to speed, weak catcher, etc., I will pull an inside move to second. If he takes off we've got him picked. If he doesn't it's a balk. I wish I had thought of this when the kids were younger and sb's were a given. The downside would be almost nill when the stolen base rate is 85+%. Of course I keep this in the back pocket for late game strategy. I last used it over Thanksgiving in Vegas and it caused a commotion with the other coaching staff sure enough that it was a balk to file a protest.
                          I'd say it is a balk, too.
                          Major Figure

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by omg View Post
                            I'd say it is a balk, too.
                            It is not. By rule, once R1 breaks for second, second is officially occupied and the pitcher may move to second.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by omg View Post
                              I'd say it is a balk, too.
                              It's only a balk if the runner doesn't go.

                              That's why you only use it if the other team has shown a propensity to steal.
                              Hitting Coordinator for Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis.

                              I also work with the pitchers who are dealing with injury problems.

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