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  • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

    The out occurs the moment he completely passes the preceding runner.....
    Does that mean, theoretically, if the b/r passes the runner (r1), umpire calls him out before ball is caught, then r1 can continue to 2nd, third, or home without penalty/having to tag up?
    Major Figure

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    • Originally posted by chicorage View Post
      Hi, this is a Fair or Foul ball type of question.
      It's not like basketball where a player can "save" a ball that is over foul territory. If the ball is touched by a player "over" foul territory it is foul. However, the ball can touch the ground (before third base) and if it is untouched by a fielder then the ball can potentially bounce back to being a fair ball.
      Major Figure

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      • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

        The out occurs the moment he completely passes the preceding runner. The call is only an acknowledgment of that status.

        If no umpire sees it, it's no different than any other missed call.
        We are on the same page about the batter runner, but the question about R1 is still open.

        The scenario at issue is that the ball is now grounded in the outfield. B/R and everyone else on the field may or may not realize he is already out having passed R1 on the baselines or even be aware that he has passed R1 until the smoke clears, with the upshot that the defense tries to make the play on him rather than on the only legal runner, B1.

        The question is that if B/R's presence on the field is confusing, even if not a purposeful act o his part to confuse the defense, will there be some secondary sanction to R1, such as being sent back, being ruled out, etc?

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        • Originally posted by omg View Post

          Does that mean, theoretically, if the b/r passes the runner (r1), umpire calls him out before ball is caught, then r1 can continue to 2nd, third, or home without penalty/having to tag up?
          Nope. The status of any other runner does not affect a runner's obligations.

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          • Originally posted by rodk View Post

            We are on the same page about the batter runner, but the question about R1 is still open.

            The scenario at issue is that the ball is now grounded in the outfield. B/R and everyone else on the field may or may not realize he is already out having passed R1 on the baselines or even be aware that he has passed R1 until the smoke clears, with the upshot that the defense tries to make the play on him rather than on the only legal runner, B1.

            The question is that if B/R's presence on the field is confusing, even if not a purposeful act o his part to confuse the defense, will there be some secondary sanction to R1, such as being sent back, being ruled out, etc?
            That is the reason that continuing to run the bases after being put out is legal--it's too hard to adjudicate if there's an impact or to what degree. As a result, there are no other penalties enforced on this type of play.

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            • 8F565DD4-0BA5-4DAA-89F1-C36812FEDAA3.gif Asking for a friend....
              How do you approach the ump about strike zone without creating a problem? If that’s possible.

              This is only one example of his “zone”. The game was unplayable. This wasn’t one sided either. He was giving 8” off the plate AND the inside pitch too. You can see that late in the game the catcher got further and further away to test. All were called strikes. 21 k’s in 5 innings. The majority were looking.

              I know you coach the players to move in on the plate but when done, the pitchers would throw inside.

              It was hard to stomach.

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              • Originally posted by GOODALL View Post
                8F565DD4-0BA5-4DAA-89F1-C36812FEDAA3.gif Asking for a friend....
                How do you approach the ump about strike zone without creating a problem? If that’s possible.

                This is only one example of his “zone”. The game was unplayable. This wasn’t one sided either. He was giving 8” off the plate AND the inside pitch too. You can see that late in the game the catcher got further and further away to test. All were called strikes. 21 k’s in 5 innings. The majority were looking.

                I know you coach the players to move in on the plate but when done, the pitchers would throw inside.

                It was hard to stomach.
                That pitch looks like it could have been a strike. It definitely was not 8" outside.

                I say these two things to anyone who asks the question you have: 1. You do it at your own risk--this is ejectable. 2. You probably are wrong--you cannot tell in and out from the dugout, and the zone is three-dimensional.

                That being said, if you choose to try to have a conversation, keep your team quiet, wait for a natural break in the action, and make it look like something else like a lineup change. Do your best not to argue, and use a passive tone ("It looks like those pitches are out," not "you shouldn't have called that a strike," for example.) If you don't get a neutral or positive response, let it go. A good management umpire will pretty much acknowledge what you said and not substantively discuss it.

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