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  • In the Cubs game yesterday, the batter/runner reversed direction and ran toward the plate. I know I have to be wrong but I thought that this was an out when the batter/runner did this. Are there differences in this play between high school and pro ball? I have seen this called in games at the HS level.
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

    I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

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    • Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
      In the Cubs game yesterday, the batter/runner reversed direction and ran toward the plate. I know I have to be wrong but I thought that this was an out when the batter/runner did this. Are there differences in this play between high school and pro ball? I have seen this called in games at the HS level.
      This is legal in all significant baseball codes--the BR can retreat and is not out unless they reach home plate. It is an automatic out in some softball codes--there may be some youth baseball based on FED or OBR that also have banned it, but I am not familiar with them.

      If this was called an out in an actual HS game, it was incorrect. If it was HS-level but not actual HS, I refer you to the statement above.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

        This is legal in all significant baseball codes--the BR can retreat and is not out unless they reach home plate. It is an automatic out in some softball codes--there may be some youth baseball based on FED or OBR that also have banned it, but I am not familiar with them.

        If this was called an out in an actual HS game, it was incorrect. If it was HS-level but not actual HS, I refer you to the statement above.
        Thanks Matt.
        Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

        I am an ex expert. I've done this long enough to know that those who think that they know it all, know nothing.

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        • This happened on Saturday at Liberty College's conference championship game. I don't quite understand it.

          There's a man at first and one out, and the batter has two strikes. The batter swings and misses at a pitch in the dirt which the catcher blocks, but it rolls up the first base line.

          That batter is struck out, of course, but he nevertheless takes off as does the runner already at first. The batter steps over the ball and never touches it, but the catcher is up quickly and bumps the batter from behind, and then complains he cannot make the throw to second. Eventually, his protest is accepted and the runner is sent back.

          My understanding was that in the case of a thrown ball, here a pitch, interference had to be intentional before anything is called (except when in the 45 foot zone on the way to first), though in the case of a batted ball, inadvertent interference sufficed.

          Am I right about that? And if I am, where was the intent on this play? Is merely still being in the play when you are already out sufficient? And if it is sufficient, why isn't it interference with a double play such that the runner on first is called out too?
          Last edited by rodk; 05-30-2021, 06:24 PM.

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          • Originally posted by rodk View Post
            This happened on Saturday at Liberty College's conference championship game. I don't quite understand it.

            There's a man at first and one out, and the batter has two strikes. The batter swings and misses at a pitch in the dirt which the catcher blocks, but it rolls up the first base line.

            That batter is struck out, of course, but he nevertheless takes off as does the runner already at first. The batter steps over the ball and never touches it, but the catcher is up quickly and bumps the batter from behind, and then complains he cannot make the throw to second. Eventually, his protest is accepted and the runner is sent back.

            My understanding was that in the case of a thrown ball, here a pitch, interference had to be intentional before anything is called (except when in the 45 foot zone on the way to first), though in the case of a batted ball, inadvertent interference sufficed.

            Am I right about that? And if I am, where was the intent on this play? Is merely still being in the play when you are already out sufficient? And if it is sufficient, why isn't it interference with a double play such that the runner on first is called out too?
            This is interference by a retired player, of which intent is irrelevant. They must not interfere with the defense in any way (except in the case of a retired runner who may still be running the bases.) The runner where the play was possible should have been called out.
            Last edited by Matt13; 05-30-2021, 09:13 PM.

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            • First post. Saw a play happen several weeks back that made me question my knowledge of the rules after 41 years of playing.

              Runner on first, but that's irrelevant. Left handed hitter hits a mid-high chopper off the end of the bat down 3rd base so it has a tailing action spin on the ball. It takes one clean bounce in fair territory and with the tailing action begins to spin towards foul territory. The 3rd baseman, who was playing shallow about 5 feet in front of the 3rd base bag in case of a bunt, makes a move on the ball to his right, fields the ball on the tailing hop which by now was just over the foul line but still in the air. The 3rd baseman cleanly fielded the ball with feet and body in fair territory, but glove hand over the foul line and before the ball touching any part of foul ground, but momentum had taken the fielder into foul ground to make the throw to first. It was a great looking play, but the umpire had ruled foul ball. I know if it had crossed 3rd base bag inside the line, it would've been fair, but before the 3rd base bag throws me off.
              I thought fair ball since it never touched foul ground and was fielded in fair territory.

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              • Originally posted by Shetto24 View Post
                First post. Saw a play happen several weeks back that made me question my knowledge of the rules after 41 years of playing.

                Runner on first, but that's irrelevant. Left handed hitter hits a mid-high chopper off the end of the bat down 3rd base so it has a tailing action spin on the ball. It takes one clean bounce in fair territory and with the tailing action begins to spin towards foul territory. The 3rd baseman, who was playing shallow about 5 feet in front of the 3rd base bag in case of a bunt, makes a move on the ball to his right, fields the ball on the tailing hop which by now was just over the foul line but still in the air. The 3rd baseman cleanly fielded the ball with feet and body in fair territory, but glove hand over the foul line and before the ball touching any part of foul ground, but momentum had taken the fielder into foul ground to make the throw to first. It was a great looking play, but the umpire had ruled foul ball. I know if it had crossed 3rd base bag inside the line, it would've been fair, but before the 3rd base bag throws me off.
                I thought fair ball since it never touched foul ground and was fielded in fair territory.
                A ball's status as fair or foul is always dependent on its own location, not anything else. If a ground ball before 1st or 3rd base (or a fly ball anywhere) has any portion of itself above fair territory when it is first touched, it is fair. Otherwise, it is foul.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

                  A ball's status as fair or foul is always dependent on its own location, not anything else. If a ground ball before 1st or 3rd base (or a fly ball anywhere) has any portion of itself above fair territory when it is first touched, it is fair. Otherwise, it is foul.
                  Got it. So, caught anywhere in fair territory is fair. In this situation, had it been fielded inside the lines regardless if fielder goes into foul territory, its fair ball. Thanks!

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                  • First time poster. It's one of those events that I don't even know how to Google it for more info:
                    • 13-15u Babe Ruth baseball
                    • No runners on bases
                    • 2 outs, 1-2 count
                    • Batter hits a short pop fly
                    • Both 3rd baseman and pitcher attempt to catch the ball near the left side of the mound
                    • There is a slight collision and the pitcher bobbles the ball for a sec then holds on to the ball for the third out
                    • Both players are bit stunned due to collision but what seems like 1-2 seconds later, the home plate umpire rules that the batter is safe
                    • The umpire later explains that this is a rare call but that in his judgement, the pitcher did not attempt to release the ball
                    In my 20+ years of baseball, I honestly never heard that rule before? What is this rule called?

                    TIA

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by slider941 View Post
                      First time poster. It's one of those events that I don't even know how to Google it for more info:
                      • 13-15u Babe Ruth baseball
                      • No runners on bases
                      • 2 outs, 1-2 count
                      • Batter hits a short pop fly
                      • Both 3rd baseman and pitcher attempt to catch the ball near the left side of the mound
                      • There is a slight collision and the pitcher bobbles the ball for a sec then holds on to the ball for the third out
                      • Both players are bit stunned due to collision but what seems like 1-2 seconds later, the home plate umpire rules that the batter is safe
                      • The umpire later explains that this is a rare call but that in his judgement, the pitcher did not attempt to release the ball
                      In my 20+ years of baseball, I honestly never heard that rule before? What is this rule called?

                      TIA
                      Did the ball touch anything other than a fielder at any point?

                      Comment


                      • no
                        Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

                        Did the ball touch anything other than a fielder at any point?
                        No, the ball was initially touched and caught by the pitcher.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by slider941 View Post
                          no

                          No, the ball was initially touched and caught by the pitcher.
                          Sounds like the umpire remembered the definition of catch, but forgot the definition of a ball in flight. A voluntary release is required to complete a catch, but the ball is still in flight and can be caught as long as it doesn't touch anything other than a fielder.

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                          • Buster Posey chases a pop fly near the on deck circle where there are weighted bats, donuts, and pine tar laying on the ground. He doesn’t catch the ball because a) he has to negotiate but does not touch objects on ground or b) he steps on objects on ground. Penalty?
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                            • Originally posted by omg View Post
                              Buster Posey chases a pop fly near the on deck circle where there are weighted bats, donuts, and pine tar laying on the ground. He doesn’t catch the ball because a) he has to negotiate but does not touch objects on ground or b) he steps on objects on ground. Penalty?
                              Nothing in NCAA/OBR. FED, it's treated the same as spectator interference and whatever penalties/awards can be imposed that would nullify the play.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

                                Nothing in NCAA/OBR. FED, it's treated the same as spectator interference and whatever penalties/awards can be imposed that would nullify the play.
                                Thanks so that means the ump could declare the batter out? It was batting team’s equipment.

                                Also, batting team pinch runs 25 for 50 and gives umpire change. 50 goes back out to field and no change is given. An inning later 50 bats and is hbpd to first. Opposing coach goes to ump and says batting out of order. Ump says no batting team is not required to “announce” re-enter. Who’s right?
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