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  • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

    The constraint is that a non-pitcher can only pitch if a team is down by six runs, so even if a roster had nine non-pitchers to fill the lineup and 14 listed pitchers, if they listed an extra three pitchers as position players, they could only pitch in those situations. Would it really be worth it to do that?
    I say yes. Yesterday's starting pitcher isn't going to pitch today so he might as well be dropped from the list of eligible pitchers. In many instances, tomorrow's starter has been either sent home, back to the hotel, or sent ahead to the next city to get sleep and/or avoid an arduous late night trip. He might as well be a non-pitcher too because he isn't going to play. I seem to recall that in the Japanese leagues, yesterday's starter can be listed as a healthy scratch, ie, he's not on the roster. The CBA probably doesn't permit that now, but I don't see any harm in that approach.

    I didn't know they changed the college rule requiring the starting DH to make a plate appearance. But instead of making that change, the way I would have handled it is by allowing the teams to ID their DH's after the opposing pitcher is identified. That's much cleaner than the now outlawed charade and probably means more offense and/or less gaming with an opener or just a different starter from the opposite side because you can't trick the other team.

    A few years ago, Mike Francessa was asked why teams were obliged to announce starters several days in advance. Why, the caller asked, could it not be left as a surprise as in high school and elsewhere. Mike's straight forward answer was that it was "unAmerican." My guess is that announcing in advance is all about getting tickets sold. There should not be any real tension between the mission of getting fans into the building and winning the games, so I'm thinking that formalizing the announcement rule into a game rule would be the better option than playing charades.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rodk View Post

      I say yes. Yesterday's starting pitcher isn't going to pitch today so he might as well be dropped from the list of eligible pitchers. In many instances, tomorrow's starter has been either sent home, back to the hotel, or sent ahead to the next city to get sleep and/or avoid an arduous late night trip. He might as well be a non-pitcher too because he isn't going to play. I seem to recall that in the Japanese leagues, yesterday's starter can be listed as a healthy scratch, ie, he's not on the roster. The CBA probably doesn't permit that now, but I don't see any harm in that approach.
      Generally speaking:

      A player not on the active roster has to be sent to the minors, and has to remain there for a set amount of time--there's no such thing as a scratch. This can only happen five times a season without the player going through waivers (or a total of 20 days without using an option.) So you can't take the pitchers that aren't used and move them from the roster without significant downside.

      Players cannot change designations in a season (with the exception of meeting the criteria of two-way players.) So if a team were to designate their "hidden" pitchers as position players, they could not use them at all except in blowouts or extra innings in that entire season (unless they become two-way players.)

      So, to use "hidden" pitchers would mean not having three position players, and those pitchers would likely be worse defensively and offensively than the players they would replace on the active roster. They could replace other pitchers, but that means not having those other pitchers for a minimum of 15 days (and if out of options, losing them on waivers.)

      This prevents organizations from hoarding pitchers.
      Last edited by Matt13; 09-08-2022, 06:28 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rodk View Post
        I didn't know they changed the college rule requiring the starting DH to make a plate appearance. But instead of making that change, the way I would have handled it is by allowing the teams to ID their DH's after the opposing pitcher is identified. That's much cleaner than the now outlawed charade and probably means more offense and/or less gaming with an opener or just a different starter from the opposite side because you can't trick the other team.
        It's not necessarily cleaner because the plate meeting is often the first time the pitchers are known, and by rule, I have to have possession of the home team's lineup before it's official, and then I get the visitor's. So it would be impossible to guarantee that either team would know the pitcher at the time lineups are required.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Matt13 View Post

          Players cannot change designations in a season (with the exception of meeting the criteria of two-way players.) So if a team were to designate their "hidden" pitchers as position players, they could not use them at all except in blowouts or extra innings in that entire season (unless they become two-way players.)
          TY, but I have not seen this clause in the rule in the usual announcements or baseball news. The 2022 rule set has not been made available free of charge, plus the rule change was made in season so the purchasable one may already be obsolete. Do you have the rulebook citation and/or the text?

          FWIW, the "two way player" would seem to be a vanishingly rare commodity now and in the future.

          I'm not sure it is really analogous, but in cricket, the rules do not allow for substitution amongst the 11 starters, nor does it permit designated hitting, but also restricts bowlers to bowling not more than 25% of the contest, meaning teams have to have at least 4 in the game at once, with 3/4ths of their time spent in various fielding positions. These guys, it turns out, are almost invariably the worst hitters on the clubs and bat at the end of the order, and in most instances, they are bowlers for the same reason guys are pitchers: can't hit. Games are also pretty well spread out rather than being day after day, meaning a team can really get by with only about 6 on the squad and 4 actually in the game. Many teams will give about 10% of the total to bowlers who are not regulars at that position just to give the regulars a blow.

          But the lesson here is that virtually all important cricket is played in the form of national allstars competing against each other; league play is minimal, and it has been like that for longer than baseball has existed. One would think that if those are the rules, the national teams would go out of their way to find and develop two ways (known in cricket as "all-rounders") from the large populations of their countries for the single national team because their role is so extensive, but they do not seem to have any more success at developing two ways than baseball does.

          So except for Ohtani, unless the teams are willing to take a big step down on overall talent to have two way players and keep them eligible under the rule set, I'm thinking this new rule will not be a big deal.

          Comment


          • Question
            Pitcher is pitching from the set position.
            His normal practice is to come set (full stop), then lift his front leg such that his knee comes slightly backward toward 2nd, break his hands and then he steps toward home and delivers.

            Is it legal for this pitcher to come set (full stop) simply step forward toward home and deliver? Assume that the catcher and batter are ready.

            Is this a quick pitch?

            Thank you

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BlueTeamDad View Post
              Question
              Pitcher is pitching from the set position.
              His normal practice is to come set (full stop), then lift his front leg such that his knee comes slightly backward toward 2nd, break his hands and then he steps toward home and delivers.

              Is it legal for this pitcher to come set (full stop) simply step forward toward home and deliver? Assume that the catcher and batter are ready.

              Is this a quick pitch?

              Thank you
              The only thing that makes a pitch a quick pitch is to deliver without getting signs (or simulating getting signs) or the batter not being ready, so you've ruled that out.

              As long as there is nothing illegal, a pitcher can vary their motion on every individual pitch if they wanted to. From your description, there is nothing illegal about either delivery.

              Comment


              • Were the no shift and speed up proposals set down in finalized rules? The news coverage about them leaves something to be desired, so here are the inquiries.

                What was said is that the infielders have to be on the skin of the infield when the pitch begins. Does that mean the corners cannot be in to defend a bunt? What makes it even more complex is that the cutout sections of the various infields around the league are not standard in shape or distance. Does some part of the rule address that?

                I don't know if it is still true, but some artificial turf fields play faster than grass and part of playing deep was self preservation. Has that been factored in?

                The two throw over rule has not been explained to any level of clarity. Is it two per batter? Two per runner? Two per runner at each base he may reach? I don't necessarily think that there will be lots of time saved because a lot of runners are going to take huge leads, especially after the throw over count is at two, and there will be lots of standing around and snap throws from home that slow things down.

                Also, when does the pitch clock start? When the pitcher gets the ball back from the infield after an out? When he climbs the mound? Can that be gamed by the infielders taking their time getting the ball back in to him? Conversely, can they screw up the hitter's time by getting the ball in immediately, thus forcing the batter to rush?

                infield comparisons.jpg
                Last edited by rodk; 11-15-2022, 12:15 PM.

                Comment

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