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  • #16
    Originally posted by jamzg5 View Post
    What age group? I should've prefaced my comment by saying it was limited exposure to 13 and younger.
    2020, so that will be a 15U team next year.

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    • #17
      He is a 2020 grad year. Once they get to HS level these teams tend to break them up by grad year and not age group. He is a younger 2020 grad as he is 14 and does not turn 15 until next June. He's been playing with a 15u team this Fall so he has been playing with his grad year over the past year.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by miker1961 View Post
        Honestly he wants both.
        That's not how this works. If he's a stud and is ready to showcase, he needs to be on a top team and in front of scouts now.

        If he needs work, he won't play on a top team (they will take his money), and he wont get better because they really don't instruct individual kids.

        Imagine you have a muscle car that has flat tires, is muddy and dirty, is smoking, and has tears in the seats. Do you take it to Barrett-Jackson to sell it as is? Or do you take it somewhere to fix it up or clean it first?
        Last edited by songtitle; 10-24-2016, 08:29 AM.
        efastball.com - hitting and pitching fact checker

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        • #19
          Originally posted by miker1961 View Post
          Honestly he wants both. He definitely has aspirations of playing in college and based on what I've seen, most of these programs are looking to get the players in front of the right coaches and set realistic expectations. My concern is, making a lower level team in one of these programs is not going to get this and I really wanted to get everyone's opinions on strengths and weaknesses for each of these.

          Great posts! Keep them coming.
          I know it's still early and there's probably still some growth to be done, but he needs to be honest about where he stacks up right now compared to his peers. The first thing is an honest assessment.

          For instance, I can look at mine (a year older) and tell at this point he's not a top level SEC/ACC (the biggies in our area) stud. He knows this and I know it, because he plays with/against those that are. Could it change with a velo jump or growth spurt? There's always that possibility, but we have to be realistic and look at "right now". Based on that information/belief, it probably isn't the best use of our money to pony up to play in front of and with those type crowds regularly right now. It's best to concentrate on getting in front of the schools that he has a legitimate shot of playing for. You do this by comparing yourself with kids that are a year or two older that are signing with those schools. What are their measurables? Do they match or are they close to mine?

          I'd give your friend the advice of having an honest assessment of abilities first and foremost, and then figure out which org accomplishes getting in front of the correct schools/coaches. Is there a trusted local "baseball guy" that he knows that can give him a good idea of where he stacks up, where he "fits"?

          If he has aspirations of playing college baseball, there is somewhere for lots and lots of kids if they are willing to be flexible and realistic. If it's "this school, SEC/ACC or bust", the options go WAAAAY down.

          Good luck!
          Ty Cobb-"Every great batter works on the theory that the pitcher is more afraid of him than he is of the pitcher."

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          • #20
            Interesting perspective. Anyone else have this opinion? Again, I'm looking for more insight about the programs but all feedback is welcome.

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            • #21
              Absolutely! This is what we keep preaching and I think he realizes this. While it's still early, its always good to see how you are stacking up to guys that are getting signed to schools that you are aspiring to.
              Originally posted by chief2791 View Post
              I know it's still early and there's probably still some growth to be done, but he needs to be honest about where he stacks up right now compared to his peers. The first thing is an honest assessment.

              For instance, I can look at mine (a year older) and tell at this point he's not a top level SEC/ACC (the biggies in our area) stud. He knows this and I know it, because he plays with/against those that are. Could it change with a velo jump or growth spurt? There's always that possibility, but we have to be realistic and look at "right now". Based on that information/belief, it probably isn't the best use of our money to pony up to play in front of and with those type crowds regularly right now. It's best to concentrate on getting in front of the schools that he has a legitimate shot of playing for. You do this by comparing yourself with kids that are a year or two older that are signing with those schools. What are their measurables? Do they match or are they close to mine?

              I'd give your friend the advice of having an honest assessment of abilities first and foremost, and then figure out which org accomplishes getting in front of the correct schools/coaches. Is there a trusted local "baseball guy" that he knows that can give him a good idea of where he stacks up, where he "fits"?

              If he has aspirations of playing college baseball, there is somewhere for lots and lots of kids if they are willing to be flexible and realistic. If it's "this school, SEC/ACC or bust", the options go WAAAAY down.

              Good luck!

              Comment


              • #22
                With my 2020 son. I know if he has any chance of playing in college it will be as a pitcher. That said he'll still be playing a position in HS (LF/RF). He tried out for a few 202 programs this fall, and we looked for programs where he would like be a PO on their showcase/scout team, but could pickup games with their lower level teams to get ABs.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Im familiar with Arsenal and ASBA. Playing on a 16u and below team has no bearing on making the 17/18u showcase team. I saw a lot of players and parents assume being in the program for several years and spending thousands of dollars is a ticket to the showcase team. It's not. They also both have multiple teams. I know a kid who was on the 17/18u B team. It was a waste of money.

                  The Aresenal A showcase team is a top team. The ASBA top team is an ok team. I've never heard of Aresenal bringing in more than pitchers who are not on the paying roster. Every team does it.

                  I have a story about ASBA. My son was invited for a recruiting visit. They put on the heavy pitch. On the alumni list I saw Ryan Flaherty (Vanderbilt, Orioles) both Upton brothers and another player who played for Vanderbilt and in the Mariners organization. It seemed odd. None of them lived within 200 miles. I called a couple of the dads. I played Legion ball with one and college summer ball with another. They both gave the same story. ASBA approached these players at PG events and invited them to play free of charge at nationals in Georgia. All they had to do was get there. Everything else was free. Several paying players (in the thousands) were thrown under the bus. ASBA also pitched they were responsible for a high draft choice my son knew personally (signed for 1.5, would have been first rounder if not threatening to go to college unless he got 2M). The kid played three fall ball tournaments for them.

                  EvoShield is perennially one of the best programs in the country. I don't know anymore about them other than they send their players to top college programs.

                  These are all programs your son better be a top tier player in the area to play for their 17/18u A team. They are businesses trying to make a profit. They have no problem taking your money and sticking the player in an irrelevant B or C team.
                  Last edited by JettSixty; 10-24-2016, 09:56 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Thanks for your candid response Jett. I totally understand they are all trying to run a business and ultimately they are promoting how many players they can commit to top level programs. There will always be a level of these programs selling themselves. I also found that odd that the Upton brothers were under the alumni for ASBA. I do know that over the past couple of years their program has started to get more connected with a lot of colleges that will suit their prospective players. Knowing that you've ultimately got to be what that particular college program is looking for is the realistic side of things.
                    Originally posted by JettSixty View Post
                    Im familiar with Arsenal and ASBA. Playing on a 16u and below team has no bearing on making the 17/18u showcase team. I saw a lot of players and parents assume being in the program for several years and spending thousands of dollars is a ticket to the showcase team. It's not. They also both have multiple teams. I know a kid who was on the 17/18u B team. It was a waste of money.

                    The Aresenal A showcase team is a top team. The ASBA top team is an ok team. I've never heard of Aresenal bringing in more than pitchers who are not on the paying roster. Every team does it.

                    I have a story about ASBA. My son was invited for a recruiting visit. They put on the heavy pitch. On the alumni list I saw Ryan Flaherty (Vanderbilt, Orioles) both Upton brothers and another player who played for Vanderbilt and in the Mariners organization. It seemed odd. None of them lived within 200 miles. I called a couple of the dads. I played Legion ball with one and college summer ball with another. They both gave the same story. ASBA approached these players at PG events and invited them to play free of charge at nationals in Georgia. All they had to do was get there. Everything else was free. Several paying players (in the thousands) were thrown under the bus. ASBA also pitched they were responsible for a high draft choice my son knew personally (signed for 1.5, would have been first rounder if not threatening to go to college unless he got 2M). The kid played three fall ball tournaments for them.

                    EvoShield is perennially one of the best programs in the country. I don't know anymore about them other than they send their players to top college programs.

                    These are all programs your son better be a top tier player in the area to play for their 17/18u A team. They are businesses trying to make a profit. They have no problem taking your money and sticking the player in an irrelevant B or C team.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by miker1961 View Post
                      Absolutely! This is what we keep preaching and I think he realizes this. While it's still early, its always good to see how you are stacking up to guys that are getting signed to schools that you are aspiring to.
                      Go watch some D1 games. Sit close to the action. Watch how fast the game is. Major conference is different than mid major (with the exception of a handful of teams). Go to games at other levels. High end D3 is hardly slouch ball. The key is to find a fit that is a quality academic and baseball fit. To play for a top tier travel showcase team your son will probably be approached not the other way around.

                      You need a business plan. Decide what conferences he possibly projects to play in. Then choose the team in the conference that's are a good academic, baseball, social and cultural fit. By cultural fit a northeast city kid might be uncomfortable in a rural south college town and vice versa. That said my son went from a large metro area to the corn fields and loved it. My daughter went to Florida to play softball.

                      Pick about fifty possible colleges. You will b esurprised jow fast the list gets whittled down. Some your son will cross off. Some the baseball program won't be interested. Email the recruiting coach and head coach at each program on the list. Express interest in the baseball program and the college. Ask what are the best showcases and tournaments to get in front of them. Now your son has to get on a team that plays in those events. THeres more. But this is a start.

                      My son did two individual showcases (SelectFest and Atlantic 100) and six tournaments with a top travel team. The showcases were both day trips. Every D1 and top D2 and D3 program east of the Mississippi were there. Both required a reference from a scout to attend. His team tournaments were in FL, GA, NC, OH, NJ and MA. Three were PG events. The showcases got the interest. PG events proved he could compete with anyone even if not a Top 200 recruit.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Again, thanks for the input here Jett. All great stuff.
                        Originally posted by JettSixty View Post
                        Go watch some D1 games. Sit close to the action. Watch how fast the game is. Major conference is different than mid major (with the exception of a handful of teams). Go to games at other levels. High end D3 is hardly slouch ball. The key is to find a fit that is a quality academic and baseball fit. To play for a top tier travel showcase team your son will probably be approached not the other way around.

                        You need a business plan. Decide what conferences he possibly projects to play in. Then choose the team in the conference that's are a good academic, baseball, social and cultural fit. By cultural fit a northeast city kid might be uncomfortable in a rural south college town and vice versa. That said my son went from a large metro area to the corn fields and loved it. My daughter went to Florida to play softball.

                        Pick about fifty possible colleges. You will b esurprised jow fast the list gets whittled down. Some your son will cross off. Some the baseball program won't be interested. Email the recruiting coach and head coach at each program on the list. Express interest in the baseball program and the college. Ask what are the best showcases and tournaments to get in front of them. Now your son has to get on a team that plays in those events. THeres more. But this is a start.

                        My son did two individual showcases (SelectFest and Atlantic 100) and six tournaments with a top travel team. The showcases were both day trips. Every D1 and top D2 and D3 program east of the Mississippi were there. Both required a reference from a scout to attend. His team tournaments were in FL, GA, NC, OH, NJ and MA. Three were PG events. The showcases got the interest. PG events proved he could compete with anyone even if not a Top 200 recruit.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Just keeping this post alive. I'd like to hear from some other people if you have anything to offer. --Thx
                          Last edited by miker1961; 10-25-2016, 04:09 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Just keeping this post alive. I'd like to hear from some other people if you have anything to offer. --Thx

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              My son played a 2020 Tri State team twice in one tourney this year and beat them both times. They had 3 teams in the tourney I doubt we faced their best. Big kids seemed well coached. We have never played an Evoshield team however I have watched them play several times and they always are well coached and have talent. The other teams I've never seen.

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                              • #30
                                How did it end up??

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