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The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty

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  • The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty

    Even to a Mets fan, it's sad to read how King George's behavior effectively destroyed a winning team. From superstition that TV crews in the clubhouse was a jinx to knee-jerk signing of Japanese players who should be the next Nomo but turned out to be busts, to a whole string of outrageous contracts, overpaying for every near-prospect (Drew Henson, $17mil!!!), spurning Guerrero for Gary Sheffield, trading for Mondesi and his huge contract on the basis of one misplayed ball in the OF by Enrique Wilson. WOW!!! It's actually just sad and appalling.

    One of the overriding messages of the book was the Yankees had to win the World Series every year, but the joy of it was gone within days and then the cycle started anew. Yankees fans often speak with pride of their 26 championships, but George needed to learn that to have meaning, titles should be won, not bought.
    :cap:

  • #2
    I must say that as a Mets fan, you talk a lot about the Yankees.

    Aren't you a Yankee fan in disguise? Or maybe deep down inside, you want to be a Yankee fan...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Yankeebiscuitfan View Post
      I must say that as a Mets fan, you talk a lot about the Yankees.

      Aren't you a Yankee fan in disguise? Or maybe deep down inside, you want to be a Yankee fan...



      No, I am not a Yankees fan, but also I am not just a Mets fan - I am a baseball fan. I don't hate other teams like some fans do. Sure, there are ones I dislike, but life is too short to engage in some fabricated "hatred" of another sports team.

      Besides, with 26 titles to 2, there's more to talk about with our cross-town rivals.
      :cap:

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      • #4
        George's insane behavior can destroys anything positive about the Yankees, Sometimes I think they win dispite of him more than because of him. (his deep pockets not with standing) His meddling and big mouth have cost the Yanks many of times. (hence my first 16 frustrated years as a Yankee fan!) Remember the Seinfeld when Constanza first gets the job with the Yankees and he tells the boss off! That was perfect and classic!

        The problem is it looks like the apple dosen't fall too far from the tree. His son seems as nuts as his old man
        39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
        2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

        :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Urbanshocker13 View Post
          George's insane behavior can destroys anything positive about the Yankees, Sometimes I think they win dispite of him more than because of him. (his deep pockets not with standing) His meddling and big mouth have cost the Yanks many of times. (hence my first 16 frustrated years as a Yankee fan!) Remember the Seinfeld when Constanza first gets the job with the Yankees and he tells the boss off! That was perfect and classic!

          The problem is it looks like the apple dosen't fall too far from the tree. His son seems as nuts as his old man
          Step one to running a good franchise - hire good baseball people, sit back and let them do their job. Steinbrenner couldn't even do that. People say he is a great owner because he spends and wants to win. Well, if anyone thinks what the Yankees have spent since 2001 and what they have to show for it, including the $100mil in luxury tax, they are crazy. If they think Steinbrenner has done more good than bad with his ultra-control freak, micromanagement, they are plain wrong. In many aspects, he has been a terrible owner.
          :cap:

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          • #6
            The Only One?

            First I would just like to say how much I enjoyed this book. I thought Buster Olney did a great job of story telling, and enjoyed the behind the scenes look at some of the key players of the dynasty. I especially liked the part about Mariano Rivera's pep talk before game 7 that really deflated the room and did more harm than good. Also, I think Olney hit the nail on the head with his background story of George really being a football guy, and his idea that a baseball team is like a football team, in where one loss can destroy the season. I don't think George could transfer his football emotions into baseball emotions, in where a team can lose 2 or 3 in a row and still be just fine. I believe his overreaction to every play and every game speaks a lot to his knee-jerk reactions.

            Also, there has been talk of this buying championships, and as a Yankee hater I have always said that George's championships were bought, and not won. However, I believe we must all hold the Boston Red Sox in the same accord, they aren't too far behind the Yankees, and way in front of the 3rd highest payroll, and have won 2 championships in recent years. Also, if you look at the AL playoff teams from years past you see the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels in all of them, the Chi-Sox when they won theirs, recently the Mets have made playoff runs with very high payrolls. I just think that King George shouldn't be the only guy taking the brunt of this "paying for championships" witch hunt. He may be the biggest one, but he isn't the only one.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JRJohnson6 View Post

              Also, there has been talk of this buying championships, and as a Yankee hater I have always said that George's championships were bought, and not won. However, I believe we must all hold the Boston Red Sox in the same accord, they aren't too far behind the Yankees, and way in front of the 3rd highest payroll, and have won 2 championships in recent years. Also, if you look at the AL playoff teams from years past you see the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels in all of them, the Chi-Sox when they won theirs, recently the Mets have made playoff runs with very high payrolls. I just think that King George shouldn't be the only guy taking the brunt of this "paying for championships" witch hunt. He may be the biggest one, but he isn't the only one.

              I would argue that you can't really buy a championship, just a virtually guaranteed spot in the playoffs. Once you are in that first round, best of five, anything can happen to bounce a big payroll team out of there, and that is what has happened to the Yankees recently, while they have been spending more than they did in their championship years. It's true they were still at the top in payroll, but nothing like the distortion of the past few, unsuccessful years.
              :cap:

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              • #8
                I hate the "Buying A Championship" bs!!!! George is one of the only owners that actually invests in his team and he is not even in the TOP 10 of richest owners. There are tons of owners and groups with much more money than he and yet he is the only one called out putting money back into his team...

                Want to see an owner buy a championship, try the Marlins, Wayne destroyed that team, what a croc!!!!

                PLus those Rings we 'bought', Jeter, posada, williams, rivera all home grown talent. Traded for O'neill (noone wanted him), Tino (a throw in), let us see, Scott Brosious (SP?), Charlie Hayes, Wade Boggs at the end of his career.

                Shall I go on, Shane Spencer, Chad Curtis, JOSE CANSECO.....

                Give it a rest....
                Always collecting Yankees...
                Especially: Jeter, Posada, Munson, Melky Cabrera, Mattingly

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                • #9
                  This book was okay...

                  I wasn't really a fan of the switching back between Game 7 narrative and the back-story, a little hokey to me, but lots that's actually a relatively common gimmick for more contemporary baseball books.

                  Anyway, there are two parts of this book that I found rather interesting.

                  The first was the whole thing about Albert Belle using the Yankees to drive up his contract, and Steinbrenner's complete dedication to acquiring him. When Belle played them, they had to come begging, and offer money hand over fist to win back an unappreciated Bernie Williams who was on his way to Boston. I thought that part was cool.

                  The other part that was not so much cool, but strange, was the part about how Enrique Wilson changed his flight because there was no victory parade to be had. The flight he was originally booked to travel on wound up crashing, and the deeply religious Mariano Rivera (and Wilson's close friend) saw the loss as an instance of "the Lord working in mysterious ways." I found that rather interesting because it made me wonder if Rivera views his success as his own agency at all. If his failure was an act of God to save Wilson's life, then wouldn't he also have to consider the possibility that his successes were also not his doing and simply part of some divine plan to benefit a peripheral character at some later date? That just seemed like a real extreme way of looking at things.

                  Was this also the book that told the story about Hal Newhouser quitting his job as an Astro scout because the Stros didn't draft Jeter with their first pick, as he recommended? He said he would never be as sure about anything else, and if they didn't listen to him them, they never would. The Stros drafted Phil Nevin, if I remember correctly. Didn't Steinbrenner also try to trade Jeter (and Mo?) to the Mariners for some reliever combo? I think that was in this book too.
                  THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                  In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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                  • #10
                    This is the best book on the modern Yankees that I'm aware of.

                    Originally posted by bryanspellman View Post
                    I hate the "Buying A Championship" bs!!!! George is one of the only owners that actually invests in his team...
                    Jeter, posada, williams, rivera all home grown talent.
                    Have you actually read the book under discussion here?

                    As I recall, one of the points of the book is that the small home-grown core of the Yankees '96-'01 teams was acquired and started developing during the very period when Steinbrenner was banned by Commissioner Vincent from direct involvement in the operations of the Yankees because of the Winfield affair. (Bernie Williams was acquired earlier, but would have been traded if Steinbrenner had remained at the controls.)

                    How many key players has the Yankees farm system produced who played their first professional season after 1993?

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                    • #11
                      I am a huge Yankee fan and I think that this buying a championship thing is not BS.

                      Of course Steinbrenner invested in his team. But how many times did he invest in over the hill players that were in the fall of their careers? Players who did not contribute at all.

                      I still think that building a team must come from inside, with farm hands. If the the fundament of the team is build, you can always go after some players from outside the club (or by FA or by trade). But only to fill the holes that your farm system can not fill. How many of today's position players are not from the Yankees' farm system? Damon? Yes, A-Rod? Yes. Giambi? Yes. Abreu? Yes. Matsui? Yes. That is five out of eight. A bit too much IMO.

                      I think that you will have better results with young gritty players. Players who have to prove something. Players who want to play their butts off.
                      A team build with only FA's won't help very much. In case of the Yankees it is often the case that the players that are hired, are already declining and see a WS as a nice bonus on their career. They have proven everything already, so they don't want to run a bit faster when necessary.

                      I bet you know about the dark period of 1981 - 1993. During that period, Steinbrenner really ruined the farm system by using our prospects mainly as trade bait. During that period he did more bad things than good things for our beloved ball club; acquiring players with great expectations and scorching them when in public, when they did not live up to the expectations. In that way you really don't create a good atmosphere in the club house.

                      No, I never liked Steinbrenner. If he wants to run the ball club in a proper way, he should sit on the background and let his people make the BASEBALL decisions. And now his two sons are taking over, it looks like that Hank Steinbrenner is sitting on the chair of Cashman. Halleluja! That will help the club a lot. :dismay:

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by spark240 View Post
                        Have you actually read the book under discussion here?
                        It never stopped people from voicing their opinions before, why would it now?...

                        For anybody concerned with information in the actual book (you know, the topic of this post), the point is that Big Stein tried to get rid of all those homegrown players Yankee fans herald as their nucleus. George was adamant about acquiring Albert Belle and displayed no interest at all in retaining Bernie Williams. Only after Belle signed with the White Sox (using the Yanks simply as a bargaining chip the whole team) did the Yanks grovel back at Bernie's feet and overpay to keep him from signing with Boston.

                        Steinbrenner attempted to trade both Rivera and Jeter numerous times as well.
                        THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                        In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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                        • #13
                          Great book. Yes, i own and have read it. A must read for a Red Sox fan (especially one who literally leapt with joy when Luis Gonzalez hit a small liner to win the World Series).

                          i love how Olney gets into the psyche of teh players. Great insight into Torre, and Posada, and O'Neil. great, great book.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MadHatter View Post
                            Great book. Yes, i own and have read it. A must read for a Red Sox fan (especially one who literally leapt with joy when Luis Gonzalez hit a small liner to win the World Series).

                            i love how Olney gets into the psyche of teh players. Great insight into Torre, and Posada, and O'Neil. great, great book.
                            The O'Neil part was pretty good too, even though it was everything you expected a profile of O'Neil would be.

                            I guess, I'll have to back off. This book was better than I gave it credit for in my initial post.

                            Really, I guess it was the format that put me off more than anything.
                            THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD

                            In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die

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                            • #15
                              I always try to tell Yankee fans who don't get it, Thank Gene "Stick" Michael for the championship run from 96-2000. I was very surprised to actually hear some boos when he was announced on Old Timers day! I hope I was mistaken, because he has the most to do with Yankees success. I saw it first hand growing up, I went faithfully to Albany Yankees games as a kid until they where taken away from me. After the horrible 90-92 years for the yanks you started to noticed the talent coming up through the farm system, the Albany Yankees even won a couple of minor leauge championships during this time. Starting in 93 the Yankees started to get better & better I heard that a player was coming to the AC Yankees that was going to be the next "Scooter", that of course was Derek Jeter and the rest is history. It's no surprise that when George started to get more involed that the Yanks stopped winning Championships! I just hope cashman's efforts won't be wasted, annd Yanks actually keep some home grown talent!

                              One of my favorite Profs. in college is a redsox fan, and he would always ask me how I could be a Yankee fan with Stienbrenner as owner. Knowing my personality totally classes with his. Ii told him "don't you know? Most Yankee fans hate him too, in some ways even more!"
                              39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
                              2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

                              :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

                              Comment

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