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  • #16
    It wasn't against the rules and for people to judge them as some sort of cheaters that ruined the game is absurd.
    Seriously, you don't think that being against the law makes it kind of defacto "against the rules?"

    Regards,

    Scott

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ssarge
      Seriously, you don't think that being against the law makes it kind of defacto "against the rules?"

      Regards,

      Scott

      andro and designer steroids weren't against the law.

      Comment


      • #18
        SSarge said: I live in Central Contra Costa, w/ a slightly different political demographic (than where you live). Bush is not as popular as he was, though, that's for sure.
        Well, all the more reason for your more conservative demographic to shrug off Bush's dissembling. And, I would think they'd be less inclined to cut Barry some slack than Berkeleyans, if for no reason other than the racial angle. (Sorry, Scott, I know your turf, and it's dam near lily white. In fact, in college, I dated the only African-American member of the 1973 Lafayette High graduating class. [Let me clarify this -- it was in 1976; she'd already graduated from high school by then. Okay? Whew.])
        The reaction on both KNBR channels has been mind boggling. Hope you're right that it is not representative. However, I predict a massive Standing O for Bonds at the home opener - which is significantly different than the reaction he'll get on the road.
        That's interesting, because I don't view the KNBR talk show hosts to be "homers". I'm sure they poked holes at callers who were in complete denial. I'm not sure that the crowd would be ready yet to give Barry a standing O, though. I think he fits into the category of old whores and politicians -- it takes a while for them to become respectable. But, I think it'll be appreciative applause for keeping his focus on the game while the world has been crashing down around him.
        MrUniverse said: Regarding performance enhancing drugs in general? I think what every major study out there says: Responsible use by adult males is safe and beneficial. You aren't risking cancer or tumors injecting testosterone any more than you are talking on your cellphone.

        Now steroid abuse is damaging but so is alcoholism or being addicted to painkillers. It's up to the person to decide whether or not they will use or abuse.

        As for shortening life-span: That's just wrong. Older patients on HRT (hormone replacement therapy AKA testosterone and HGH use) live longer and BETTER lives than those that just allow their hormones to natually dip.
        Whoa, dude, those attitudes are downright scary. First of all, you're mixing apples and turnips. HGH and testosterone use for older folks under a doctor's supervision is a far cry from a healthy 30 year old taking massive 'roids in the butt in a men's room from Dr. Canseco. And arguing that 'roids aren't so bad because, gee, alcoholism is dangerous too... C'mon! So is Russian Roulette, but that isn't any recommendation for 'roids either.

        You sound a little like the crazies we have out here who are convinced that HIV doesn't cause AIDs. I don't know what your agenda is, but ... well, I won't speculate. Let's try this test: would you want your little brother juicing because he thought it made him more buffed and hence a babe magnet? Not HGH or testosterone, but the real stuff.
        sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ursa Major

          You sound a little like the crazies we have out here who are convinced that HIV doesn't cause AIDs. I don't know what your agenda is, but ... well, I won't speculate. Let's try this test: would you want your little brother juicing because he thought it made him more buffed and hence a babe magnet? Not HGH or testosterone, but the real stuff.


          This shows your ignorance of the subject matter. Testosterone is "the real stuff" and the number one mass increasing agent available. Nobody informed does steroids without testosterone. Furthermore, "the real stuff" you're probably referring to (stanolozol, dianabol, equipoise, etc) are derivitives of testosterone.

          People just aren't informed. Show me ONE study....ONE that links steroid use to a death/tumors. There isn't one.

          I made the comparison to alcohol BECAUSE as we know, alcohol can be used safely, it is when it's abused that it gets to be a problem. Same thing with anabolics.

          And if my "little brother" was a 28 year old man that had reached his genetic potential and wanted to surpass it AND had done his homework and was under doctor's supervision: I wouldn't have a problem with it. As long as he accepted the legal ramifications if caught. I wouldn't touch them because they're illegal. However I have done a lot of research on the subject.

          I want you to download and watch this HBO special

          http://www.elitefitness.com/articled...id-special.avi

          Comment


          • #20
            By the way:


            I dont want to give off the impression that I'm some juiced up roid-head. I'm not. I'm just saying that the witch hunt that is going on in America today about anabolics is largely unfounded. I don't advocate women or children taking them. TERRIBLE ideas. I don't advocate stupid or immature people taking them. Hell, I don't advocate ANYONE taking them. I would never say "hey, you should take steroids!" BUT I do understand why people take them. And I do know taken correctly, they will offer negligable health concerns to healthy adult males.

            Comment


            • #21
              I dated the only African-American member of the 1973 Lafayette High graduating class. [Let me clarify this -- it was in 1976; she'd already graduated from high school by then. Okay? Whew.])
              we have much in common.

              I assume by Lafayette High you mean Acalanes? My wife attended there, graduating in 1975. She is, uh, Swedish. So I take your point. Our church felt we were too homogenous, and recently commissioned a demographic study. Turned out we were doing OK, the demographics of the county's population are close to what you indicate. It has changed some in the past 3 decades, but not much. I have always viewed broadened cross-cultural exposure as a real positive in kid's travel sports.


              As for the Standing O for Barry - if I'm wrong, I'll but you a beer and a hot dog next time we are together at one game or another. Which I hope will be soon.

              Best regards,

              Scott

              Comment


              • #22
                I assume by Lafayette High you mean Acalanes? My wife attended there, graduating in 1975. She is, uh, Swedish.
                I don't recall, but I guess Acalanes is the only high school out there. So, that must be it. It's not like she was completely alone. There was one other African-American student there... her brother. And, it's okay if your wife is Swedish; so am I.
                As for the Standing O for Barry - if I'm wrong, I'll but you a beer and a hot dog next time we are together at one game or another. Which I hope will be soon.
                Are we talking tomorrow's exhibition against the Angels, or the regular season home opener against the Braves on April 6th? And for paying off the winner, I think we make a road trip to Sacramento on May 1st and hoist a banner for HiddenGem against the Beavers. Maybe drag Jim Booth along....
                sigpicIt's not whether you fall -- everyone does -- but how you come out of the fall that counts.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Let's say the regular season home opener. Lot's of A's fans at the pre-season finale at AT&T over the weekend. That will skew crowd reaction. It will be all Giants fans at the home opener. And Bonds will be VERY warmly greeted.

                  May 1 in Sacramento sounds like a great idea. Let's do this and support David.

                  Best,

                  Scott

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    ssarge, please gimme your best case that the fans of any of the 29 other clubs would not greet their top star in the manner that you describe for bonds.

                    . . . . . . . . .

                    players do not believe that anonymity is alive and well simply because they do not trust the owners. the players union and the owners lock horns and battle it out on a number of issues. there is no love lost there.

                    . . . . . . . . .

                    there is no way to know whether anonymity has been protected.
                    just because we have not heard stories does not mean that all is proper and good with the testing information.

                    . . . . . . . . .

                    "close to 50%" is on the low side, according to my guys.
                    "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      blaming the fans for the juicing and stating that they had widespread, systematic knowledge of steroid use is ridiculous - and saying that they gave de facto approval is off base - once again americans blame the system instead of the individual - no one is accountable - it's all everyone else's fault - maybe it's all the chicks' fault because they enjoy the long ball - maybe it's espn because they broadcast the games - or perhaps it is the car dealers that advertise on espn - or maybe the tire manufacturers who supply the car dealers - and perhaps the rubber suppliers and all the delivery and shipping personnel - i can't be mcgwire and the boys - no not possible

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Finished reading Game of Shadows earlier in the week. I think somewhere near 80% of the book focused primarily on Track and Field (in association with BALCO of course). Just the same the summation is basically that MLB did their best to cover up this mess and any relation of it to Babo or McQuire. SInce they covered this mess up (as much as possible) I don't see how this new "investigation" will yeild anything new.

                        Roger Marris is still the HR king and holds the record.

                        F Babo, McQuire, the Giambi's and anyone else who cheats!
                        Last edited by Nomtoc; 04-10-2006, 04:47 AM.
                        "I believe in the soul ... the small of a woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          ^^^ What does your avatar say?
                          "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
                          Carl Yastrzemski

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            What bothers me is that all the focus seems to be on the BALCO clients. conte only had a handful of players he was working with. What about all the other players who were taking steroids? They must have been getting them from someone. The whole investigation is centered around one piece of a multi piece puzzle. Until they get to the bottom of where other people got their steroids, it will be a BS investigation.

                            I'm a diehard Yankee fan but its interesting to see how Roger Clemens bulked up later in his career and I always wondered about Mike Mussina. Once they started testing all of a sudden Mussina wasn't throwing 95 mph anymore. He also developed shoulder problems but it makes you wonder.

                            Steroids cast a "shadow" on the whole game not just Barry.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by runningshoes53
                              ^^^ What does your avatar say?
                              "Baseball isn't boring, you are!"

                              It's a tee from The Heckler.
                              Last edited by Nomtoc; 04-09-2006, 07:38 AM.
                              "I believe in the soul ... the small of a woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by CoachZee
                                What bothers me is that all the focus seems to be on the BALCO clients. conte only had a handful of players he was working with. What about all the other players who were taking steroids? They must have been getting them from someone. The whole investigation is centered around one piece of a multi piece puzzle. Until they get to the bottom of where other people got their steroids, it will be a BS investigation.

                                I'm a diehard Yankee fan but its interesting to see how Roger Clemens bulked up later in his career and I always wondered about Mike Mussina. Once they started testing all of a sudden Mussina wasn't throwing 95 mph anymore. He also developed shoulder problems but it makes you wonder.

                                Steroids cast a "shadow" on the whole game not just Barry.
                                My understanding is that this is not just a BALCO affilliate investigation since McQuire is on the list.
                                "I believe in the soul ... the small of a woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter."

                                Comment

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