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"42" ... Anyone Planning To See This?

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  • "42" ... Anyone Planning To See This?

    Maybe not a Mets-specific topic, strictly speaking, but given the Brooklyn Dodgers are half our spiritual ancestors (as it were) and there IS the Jackie Robinson Rotunda at Not-Ebbets-Field (anyone else hope someday they just name the park Jackie Robinson Field someday?)...

    Anyone planning to see the Jackie Robinson biopic "42," or have a thought on the trailer?

    (I think it looks great, and I'm glad they kept in that actual exchange between Robinson and Rickey "You want a player who doesn't have the guts to fight back?" "No, I want a player who has the guts NOT to fight back.")

    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

  • #2
    I plan to see it this weekend.

    What I'd like to know, though, is how realistic it's going to be given the PG-13 rating. Certainly, Jackie had to put up with several words and epithets that simply won't pass muster with that rating. I'm eager to see the movie, though.
    Put it in the books.

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    • #3
      Brookln Dodger fan Larry King absolutely loved it. I wish I could remember who he was talking to about it, because that person, who also loved it, has some credibility with me in regards to what's good.

      I do plan on seeing it, maybe even at regular price as opposed to second-run cheapie.
      Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
      Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
      Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
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      • #4
        Originally posted by milladrive View Post
        I plan to see it this weekend.

        What I'd like to know, though, is how realistic it's going to be given the PG-13 rating. Certainly, Jackie had to put up with several words and epithets that simply won't pass muster with that rating. I'm eager to see the movie, though.
        I'm also afraid it's going to be a sanitized, somewhat inaccurate account. As I've said before, I wish Spike Lee would have made his Jackie Robinson movie, we'd get the real deal from Lee. I might see it after I've read a few informed reviews, but I may wait until Netflix gets it.
        They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
          I'm also afraid it's going to be a sanitized,
          We keep saying we want baseball to reach younger people and a more mainstream audience, right?
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          • #6
            Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
            I'm also afraid it's going to be a sanitized, somewhat inaccurate account. As I've said before, I wish Spike Lee would have made his Jackie Robinson movie, we'd get the real deal from Lee.
            Leaving aside the irony of having a Yankees fan direct a Jackie Robinson/Brooklyn Dodgers film...he would've been an interesting choice, but while I don't doubt he'd have spared any of the details, I wonder, given how entrenched he is, if he'd have made the film more bleak than triumphant, as this film seems to in tone be building to the latter. Granted the former's obviously not only valid but the sad truth (and "bleak" as a description for the state of civil rights pre-Robinson is probably putting it far too mildly) but from a story-telling point of view, and especially this story...Jackie's story is just such a part of not only baseball mythos but American mythos at this point that we want and expect that triumphant ending to the tale, and from what experience I have with Lee's work, I think a Lee-helmed 42 would probably be bleaker and preachier--and that's the danger with using Spike Lee. I mean, it's a story we know so well by this point, there's no need to be heavy-handed and preachy about it--the story on its own carries enough of the moral lessons and gravitas that we're to take away from it...anything extra would feel like over-dramatizing the already intensely-dramatic.

            Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
            We keep saying we want baseball to reach younger people and a more mainstream audience, right?
            Well, yes, but at what cost?

            This is the same issue I have when people argue that using the word "slave" instead of the N-word in editions of "Huck Finn" will allow kids to read the story that otherwise might have been unable to because their schools didn't let them.

            You just LOSE something irretrievable in substituting "slave" for the N-word...Twain uses it more than 200 times in the novel, and he has a REASON for doing so...it's supposed to be both reflective of how people really did talk at that time and, in the accuracy of that depiction, it's supposed to be uncomfortable, using that word so many times...that's part of what makes it a masterpiece, that it takes you out of your comfort zone and really makes you think about the issues being raised. That provocative element is dulled by just using "slave;" that's bad, yes, but I doubt anyone here would say calling someone that is more hurtful, degrading and dehumanizing than the N-word...

            There's a REASON we're OK saying one and don't use the other, such is the gravity of that second, powerfully-unutterable word.

            And mean as it sounds, it's true--I can't imagine a completely faithful Jackie Robinson story without the N-word coming up again and again.
            That IS, after all, very much what he faced.
            You just can't sanitize that...it's like sanitizing "Huck Finn"--

            Maybe more people get to see the story, but is it really the same story when it's been cleaned up, and the rougher elements which made it provocative in the first place are smoothed over?

            I mean, just drawing from my own background, that'd be like telling a story set in the 1930s around a Jewish family and not have them once harassed or threatened, and not called all the slurs Jews were called...the K-word and such...

            I would be appalled at a film sanitizing the past that way just to get a PG-13 rating. You might as well Disney-fy the past up and give a happy ending to the Holocaust if you're going to sanitize the past that way to avoid hurt feelings and reach a younger audience...and not only would no one want that, no one would STAND for that, they'd be outraged.

            Hopefully this movie still succeeds, but if it does over-sanitize history, I'd understand a level of outrage, too. That it's PG-13 is no excuse; on the contrary, making something for the youth of America is all the more reason to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, ugliness and all...so they can LEARN from those mistakes as well as fully appreciate what Jackie had to go through and overcome, and what his sacrifice really meant, for all of us.

            I'm not particularly religious, but if ever there was a martyred figure in baseball, it WAS Jackie Robinson.

            (I really do think that the N-word in this case SHOULD have been allowed in for a PG-13 flick...again, see my "Huck Finn" example...it's not as if the word is being used so the kids will emulate it, it's being used to show what was and thus make and impact on kids in the here and now...and the more kids are in tune with that past--ugliness and all--the better...and kids read "Huck Finn" as teenagers, so why not allow the N-word for just this case, too, for Jackie's story?)
            "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
              We keep saying we want baseball to reach younger people and a more mainstream audience, right?
              Well yes, but I also want the youngsters to know why Jackie Robinson is as honored and respected as he is. To sanitize the story to ensure a PG-13 rating is to trivialize the conditions and mindset he was up against. I don't want to go off on an all-out rant without seeing the movie, but I remember reading some of the advance press releases from the studio, and they were so full of historical errors that I really don't have high expectations for this film. I hope I'm wrong, I'll be happy if they got it right.
              They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                Well yes, but I also want the youngsters to know why Jackie Robinson is as honored and respected as he is. To sanitize the story to ensure a PG-13 rating is to trivialize the conditions and mindset he was up against. I don't want to go off on an all-out rant without seeing the movie, but I remember reading some of the advance press releases from the studio, and they were so full of historical errors that I really don't have high expectations for this film. I hope I'm wrong, I'll be happy if they got it right.
                A good filmaker can replicate the tension, drama, realism, and the importance of a story without litering it with 30 F-bombs.

                Look at the Dark Night - one of the most violently visceral, tension-building films ever made, but with no blood or gore. That is good filmaking.

                If you can pull it off and appeal to young kids who know very little about Robinson - mission accomplished.

                If people really want realism, they should not tune into Hollywood at all. That train has passed by decades ago.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                  A good filmaker can replicate the tension, drama, realism, and the importance of a story without litering it with 30 F-bombs.
                  I'm not looking for F-bombs, but rather for certain documented incidents that I think need to be included that probably won't be, such as Montreal Royals manager Clay Hopper's conversation with Branch Rickey, to name one example.

                  If people really want realism, they should not tune into Hollywood at all. That train has passed by decades ago.
                  I suppose the little darlings could pick up a good book on Robinson, such as Opening Day by Jonathan Eig, or Baseball's Great Experiment by Jules Tygeil, but what are the chances of that?
                  They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                    I'm not looking for F-bombs, but for certain documented incidents that I think need to be included that probably won't be, such as Montreal Royals manager Clay Hopper's conversation with Branch Rickey, to name one example.



                    I suppose the little darlings could pick up a good book on Robinson, such as Opening Day by Jonathan Eig, or "Baseball's Great Experiment" by Jules Tygeil, but what are the chances of that?
                    I leave it at this. I am not saying realism would be bad. I just don't think that explatives are neccessary to make a movie great or "real." Citizen Cain, anybody? But yes, they should no change facts.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                      I leave it at this. I am not saying realism would be bad. I just don't think that explatives are neccessary to make a movie great or "real." Citizen Cain, anybody? But yes, they should no change facts.
                      Good, then we agree.
                      They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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                      • #12
                        I'm definitely going to see it. I don't usually put much stock into producers of films, but this husband/wife duo also produced Ray - the movie about Ray Charles. They also have one coming out year's end about Gordie Howe. They seem to know and respect enough of sport & culture for me to believe this movie could be a winner. Now if they found a way to get Chuck Norris to have a role, it'd be a win-win for everybody
                        "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                        • #13
                          The first time I hear any of that music from the trailer during the actual film, I'm walking out.
                          "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
                          Carl Yastrzemski

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by runningshoes View Post
                            The first time I hear any of that music from the trailer during the actual film, I'm walking out.
                            I am sick of Jay-Z too.

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                            • #15
                              The actual soundtrack seems contemporary for the time. And Clay Hopper is in the film, although I cannot say how he is depicted.

                              http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453562/...ef_=tt_trv_snd
                              Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                              Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                              Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                              Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                              Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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