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  • Ken Burns Baseball

    Tried searching but couldn't find anything, but I enjoyed Mr. Burns' documentary and have watched specific innings over and over many times. I have always wondered how accurate it was? Were there a lot of inaccuracies?

    Thanks,
    James
    Axes grind and maces clash!

  • #2
    I really tried to like this show but I can't even watch it anymore. If a baseball history show is ever made again, I really hope Ken Burns doesn't do it.
    "(Shoeless Joe Jackson's fall from grace is one of the real tragedies of baseball. I always thought he was more sinned against than sinning." -- Connie Mack

    "I have the ultimate respect for Whitesox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Redsox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country."--Jim Caple, ESPN (Jan. 12, 2011)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
      I really tried to like this show but I can't even watch it anymore. If a baseball history show is ever made again, I really hope Ken Burns doesn't do it.
      Why? Baseball, along with others he's done, is excellent IMO.

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      • #4
        There were dozens of factual errors. Keith Olbermann ran off a nightly list. One criticism is that the documentary had too much Brooklyn Dodgers, Yankees, & Red Sox content. There were some good mini-bios; can't include everyone, but Harmon Killebrew, for example, wasn't even mentioned. I liked the early innings for some of the video I hadn't previously seen.

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        • #5
          The first part was interesting but as it went on it was stuck in a rut on the theme of race and also the saintliness of the labor movement. Thus, we got a lot of time about Collusion and not one second about any of the player strikes. It's 1994 perspective about George Steinbrenner was ludicrous even before the rise of the Yankee dynasty and it was indeed overly obsessed with Brooklyn and Boston. I also found it idiotic how for a lot of scenes Burns would take footage that exists in pristine videotape quality and turn it into kinescopey-looking film (like in his segment on the 1986 World Series).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chicagowhitesox1173 View Post
            I really tried to like this show but I can't even watch it anymore. If a baseball history show is ever made again, I really hope Ken Burns doesn't do it.
            I've got the lot, but can only get through about an hour of the first one. Problem with sport doc's in general I feel is they over dramatise things to the point of slushiness. I will soldier through but hope the following installments get better.

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            • #7
              I honestly didn't like it either. The first episode was way too self-congratulatory. I thought the MLB doco made in 1994 about the history of baseball was much better.
              RIP - HGF [1937-2009]

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              • #8
                Originally posted by scribbs View Post
                I've got the lot, but can only get through about an hour of the first one. Problem with sport doc's in general I feel is they over dramatise things to the point of slushiness. I will soldier through but hope the following installments get better.
                Wait until you find out about Doris Kearns Goodwin's dating habits. More important that the Reds, Indians and Orioles in regards to baseball history.
                Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                • #9
                  Maybe one of you guys will make a documentary- I'm sure it'll be a lot better.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Macker View Post
                    There were dozens of factual errors. Keith Olbermann ran off a nightly list. One criticism is that the documentary had too much Brooklyn Dodgers, Yankees, & Red Sox content. There were some good mini-bios; can't include everyone, but Harmon Killebrew, for example, wasn't even mentioned. I liked the early innings for some of the video I hadn't previously seen.
                    Harmon Killebrew did get his name spoken at one point when there was a string of power hitters mentioned. Stan Musial got a full minute or so at some point in the 1960s. Sure wouldn't want to waste any valuable time on The Man.

                    As for the OP asking for inaccuracies, I actually just watched the last 4-5 inning of that last week. I heard the narrator say that the Gas House Gang got their nickname for the rough play in the 1934 World Series, but they didn't pick up that moniker until late in the 1935 season. They also said that the 1946 Cardinals in Game 7 had "uncharacteristically" strung some hits together to take the lead -- which is rubbish because that team led the NL in batting and runs, and even outhit the Red Sox in the Series. The narrator made them sound like the 'Hitless Wonders.'
                    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BigRon View Post
                      Maybe one of you guys will make a documentary- I'm sure it'll be a lot better.
                      Give us millions of dollars to do so, and sure, why not?
                      Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                      Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                      Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                      Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                        Give us millions of dollars to do so, and sure, why not?
                        Exactly. I am not complaining, or saying that the guy and his crew did a bad job. I did notice a few errors that didn't get checked before they were added into the script, the two I mentioned above are the only ones I remember right now, and I would've taken a different approach to some of the eras at times also. But, overall, I enjoy the documentary, and I can sit through the nonsensical misty-eyed garbage about all the New York teams. I don't care for it, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me either. There were a lot of great teams and players from around both leagues that were passed over to cram in more of that garbage. I would've skipped all that and stuck to telling the story of the game, but I only had to make one short 10 minute documentary for a class a year ago. That is the extent of my film making career.
                        "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
                          Exactly. I am not complaining, or saying that the guy and his crew did a bad job. I did notice a few errors that didn't get checked before they were added into the script, the two I mentioned above are the only ones I remember right now, and I would've taken a different approach to some of the eras at times also. But, overall, I enjoy the documentary, and I can sit through the nonsensical misty-eyed garbage about all the New York teams. I don't care for it, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me either. There were a lot of great teams and players from around both leagues that were passed over to cram in more of that garbage. I would've skipped all that and stuck to telling the story of the game, but I only had to make one short 10 minute documentary for a class a year ago. That is the extent of my film making career.
                          Right. Overall, it's a strong production despite its flaws, and even at the size of it, there's no way everyone and eveyrthing can be represented in a worthy manner.

                          But I do so love a heartwarming father-daughter bonding story, even if it means Mike Schmidt never existed.
                          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                            Right. Overall, it's a strong production despite its flaws, and even at the size of it, there's no way everyone and eveyrthing can be represented in a worthy manner.

                            But I do so love a heartwarming father-daughter bonding story, even if it means Mike Schmidt never existed.
                            Yeah, some of that sappy stuff is excusable, due to the great connections between family, baseball, and certain clubs at certain times. I am sure all of us that come from strong baseball families or communities can start knocking off dozens of tales like those in the documentary. There is that strong emotional bond in sports between fans and their beloved teams, but Mike Schmidt did exist. So did Harmon Killebrew, mentioned above and I believe in only name once during the film. Stan Musial seriously only got maybe a full 60 seconds, and it seemed like his bit was only an excuse to lead into Pete Rose. It was pretty sickening.
                            "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
                              Wait until you find out about Doris Kearns Goodwin's dating habits. More important that the Reds, Indians and Orioles in regards to baseball history.
                              Had to look her up as didn't know who she is. It's an incredible undertaking that Burn's produced a multi-volume doc.

                              I am getting grumpy in my old age. The thing is I used to follow boxing & go on forums debating what if's, fantasy matches and anecdotes, but over a period of time the fantasy element became simply too much as it's just that, a fantasy, whereas the anecdotes can be skewed with time. One of the issues seems the regurgitation of stories that have been handed down & taken as fact when in reality it's a little different. You will not find me getting into who was the best arguments.

                              As I said sport doc's can be a little over dramatic and one of the main things I've come to understand is there seems to be someone who waxes lyrical about the sport with statements like " There's no ther sport like this" or "Nothing compares" or "It's the greatest thing ever". Maybe or maybe not. Seen loads & a small amount of doc's get to the point without being dramatic but far many others are obviously made with the intention to pander to fans who are deeply in love with a sport.

                              The thing is I like more than one sport, from February until October I'm following Rugby League in UK & Australia, Australian Rules Footy & Baseball. Between May/June until September includes some GAA (Irish) Football & Hurling. Throughout the year I also follow darts, the end of the year helps with the offseason of the pre-mentioned sports as November to January has a lot of TV Tournies.

                              I think my point is a doc should be that, a document of facts whereas if you want to slant it they take a specific subject but state it in the title. Basically a warts an all approch for me works rather than this is great, he was great or this was happening at that time, really has nothing to do with this subject, but thought i would include it to appear to give some depth.

                              And breathe scribbs - all is calm :disgruntled:
                              Last edited by scribbs; 08-25-2014, 08:15 AM.

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