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Why your rookie card might not be a rookie card...

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  • #16
    Thanks, I appreciate it! I too wish they'd not done this...if they'd put "rookie card restrictions" in, I'd just allow UD and Topps to make two all-rookie sets a year plus allowing rookies in Topps Updates & Highlights and Upper Deck Update. They actually came pretty close to doing this, but it did not work out.
    "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
    -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

    Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

    Comment


    • #17
      For me, it's not worth the trouble to find Rookie Cards. I think they are going to be over priced in most cases anyway. In looking at this list how many of these guys are going into the same dump heap as all of my Brien Taylor cards. I never bought any, but man did I get several out of packs. Just like Derek Jeter rookies. I've got like 10-15 of those things from Topps and Upper Deck.

      I don't collect cards to get rookies. It's nice to get them, but what am I going to do with my McGwire, Bonds and Strawberry rookie cards. Thankfully, they were all pulled from packs.

      I don't know how typical this is but here is some quick research from some various Beckett publications.

      Earlier this year, my 1985 Topps #536 Kirby Puckett was worth $10
      In 1994, it was worth $18 (one year from retirement)
      in 1988, it was worth $6

      I pulled it from a pack so it was a good investment for me. (There is part of me that says it's only a good investment if you eventually sell it for more $$$)

      I guess my point is if I had known in 1988 that he would be in the HOF and I spent $6 on the card I'd be disappointed that I had made only four dollars if I didn't sell it at the end of his career.

      At that point in the 1980s, Topps, Fleer and Donruss were going strong so we had three (debatable) rookie cards.
      By the 1990s and into today, there are so many cards produced its hard to keep up. If you are collector of vintage cards you probably are OK. The values have gone up or stabilized. I guess in the long run my point is that a 1952 Mickey Mantle isn't going to happen again. Heck, unless there is a short print or error card nothing is going to be that high.

      Here is a some of others from vintage Topps. Both were pulled from packs.

      George Brett 1975 was worth $37.50 in 1988
      $225 in 1994
      $80 in 2008

      Dave Winfield 1974
      $18 in 1988
      $225 in 1994 (I actually sold that one)
      $50 in 2008 (I bought it again because I regretted selling it even though I needed cash)

      In my 1994 Beckett (Michael Jordan on the cover, wow that seems like another lifetime)

      Tim Salmon was one of the hot guys

      1993 Fleer Ultra was listed as $3.50
      The card is not listed in 2008 unless you look at common rookie 30 cents or rookie semistar 50 cents.

      Are we at that place today.
      The Phil Hughes 2007 Ultra card was priced at $12. Hopefully, no one paid that much for it.
      Just a few moments ago the cheapest price (by it now) for the card on ebay was $3.99 with $2.75 shipping. Total $6.74. That's almost half off and I suspect it's not going any higher.

      Comment


      • #18
        I'm merely putting out info to help the people that are interested in knowing what is and is not a rookie card. FWIW, I view baseball cards as a hobby, not an investment. Even though I don't view them as investments, I just think having the true rookie card of a guy is really neat. And I'm sure there are other people like that. It's for them that I designed this list and these rules.
        "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
        -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

        Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

        Comment


        • #19
          Wow thanks for all this insight, I wasn't aware. Where did you get all of your information from that was posted in the first post, is there a source I can reference this with, soemthing from the MLBPA perhaps? I'm somewhat confused, but I'm trying to understand it as best I can.

          Keep in mind it's 2:30 am right now.
          "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
          -Vin Scully

          Comment


          • #20
            "I wasn't aware. Where did you get all of your information from that was posted in the first post, is there a source I can reference this with"

            My former boss, Mark, an Upper Deck Diamond Club Dealer, explained it to me in layman's terms. But the MLBPA should have it somewhere. The Beckett boards would also have guys that could probably recite this as it was written.
            "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
            -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

            Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

            Comment


            • #21
              Nice analysis

              Dalkowski110 nice analysis. I dont know if you are interested in giving your analysis of what should be considered a basic card. This seems like a big issue with PSA Registry and wanted your input on the definition of a basic card.

              Comment


              • #22
                Sure. A basic card is any card that is...
                1) Part of a base set OR an insert set that outnumbers or features the same number of cards as the base set (a la Bowman Prospects or Bowman Chrome Prospects)
                2) Not autographed or serial-numbered and does not contain a game-used bat, jersey, patch, ball, etc.
                3) Not in any way short-printed.
                4) Not a parallel of a base card set or insert card set that outnumbers or features the same numbers of cards as the base set.

                My definition of the term is quite similar to base card, as you can see, but if it isn't QUITE what you had in mind, then feel free to scrap it.
                "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
                -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

                Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dalkowski110 View Post
                  Sure. A basic card is any card that is...
                  1) Part of a base set OR an insert set that outnumbers or features the same number of cards as the base set (a la Bowman Prospects or Bowman Chrome Prospects)
                  2) Not autographed or serial-numbered and does not contain a game-used bat, jersey, patch, ball, etc.
                  3) Not in any way short-printed.
                  4) Not a parallel of a base card set or insert card set that outnumbers or features the same numbers of cards as the base set.

                  My definition of the term is quite similar to base card, as you can see, but if it isn't QUITE what you had in mind, then feel free to scrap it.
                  thanks dalkowski110,

                  would starting lineup cards or food premiums be included?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I would exempt the cards that came with the Starting Lineup figurines because they're not the primary baseball product being sold. I would not exempt the cards that come with cereal, gum, candy, etc. because they are the primary baseball item being sold.
                    "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
                    -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

                    Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dalkowski110 View Post
                      I would exempt the cards that came with the Starting Lineup figurines because they're not the primary baseball product being sold. I would not exempt the cards that come with cereal, gum, candy, etc. because they are the primary baseball item being sold.

                      like you argument. thanks and good luck with all your projects.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The definition of a rookie card was the same for many years until it changed in the 1990's and moved more and more away from the player's first year in the big leagues. Now, it is fairly clear that the card company's and Major League Baseball want to go back to the way rookie cards were before, which I think is the right move. I am hopeful that the excitement in them returns to feverish, as well as price increases commensurate with increased demand.
                        Baseball cards, sports cards & My Baseball Card Space website are my favorite hobbies.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          "I am hopeful that the excitement in them returns to feverish, as well as price increases commensurate with increased demand."

                          I'm not. All it's done is made high grade Minor League cards and Bowman cards go up in price. MLBPA RC's unless they are indeed the player's first card, have an autograph, or are extreme shortprints price as commons.
                          "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
                          -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

                          Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by greenbay63 View Post
                            I don't know how typical this is but here is some quick research from some various Beckett publications.

                            Earlier this year, my 1985 Topps #536 Kirby Puckett was worth $10
                            In 1994, it was worth $18 (one year from retirement)
                            in 1988, it was worth $6

                            I pulled it from a pack so it was a good investment for me. (There is part of me that says it's only a good investment if you eventually sell it for more $$$)

                            I guess my point is if I had known in 1988 that he would be in the HOF and I spent $6 on the card I'd be disappointed that I had made only four dollars if I didn't sell it at the end of his career.

                            At that point in the 1980s, Topps, Fleer and Donruss were going strong so we had three (debatable) rookie cards.
                            By the 1990s and into today, there are so many cards produced its hard to keep up. If you are collector of vintage cards you probably are OK. The values have gone up or stabilized. I guess in the long run my point is that a 1952 Mickey Mantle isn't going to happen again. Heck, unless there is a short print or error card nothing is going to be that high.

                            Here is a some of others from vintage Topps. Both were pulled from packs.

                            George Brett 1975 was worth $37.50 in 1988
                            $225 in 1994
                            $80 in 2008

                            Dave Winfield 1974
                            $18 in 1988
                            $225 in 1994 (I actually sold that one)
                            $50 in 2008 (I bought it again because I regretted selling it even though I needed cash)

                            In my 1994 Beckett (Michael Jordan on the cover, wow that seems like another lifetime)

                            Tim Salmon was one of the hot guys

                            1993 Fleer Ultra was listed as $3.50
                            The card is not listed in 2008 unless you look at common rookie 30 cents or rookie semistar 50 cents.

                            Are we at that place today.
                            The Phil Hughes 2007 Ultra card was priced at $12. Hopefully, no one paid that much for it.
                            Just a few moments ago the cheapest price (by it now) for the card on ebay was $3.99 with $2.75 shipping. Total $6.74. That's almost half off and I suspect it's not going any higher.
                            A friend of mine owns a card and comic shop. He's said that if the card and comic boom of the early ninties had lasted for eight to ten years, he could have retired a millionaire. Yet today he sits in his store everyday peddling new comics, coins and NASCAR stuff.
                            If I had only spent a tenth of the time studying Physics that I spent learning Star Wars and Baseball trivia, I would have won the Nobel Prize.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I remember first reading about the RC notation to be used on cards. I was a big collector of Bowman cards since I was more into prospects, and many of them held a strong value simply becuse they premiered their players once signed - often 2-3 years before those players actually got into a Topps, Donruss, Fleer, UD, product.

                              But the good thing the RC designation did, I guess, was to eliminate confusion as there was so much product in the 00's.

                              Unfortunately, after 6 boxes I wasn't able to find the Pujols chrome Eventually prices got so ridiculous, it just got too out of hand to even try.

                              Although I did get luck and got an auto'd '02 or '03 Bowman Heritage which was a nice pull. Sold it that night as auto's aren't my thing.

                              @ greenbay63 - I feel your pain. One thing to know is that cards in the 80's were massively overproduced. The best of the best are only worth a few dollars on the market. It's somewhat why SPs returned along with set chase cards that were limited but needed to put the set together. The 90s turned into almost a lottery when you opened a pack. Game used stuff was highly soughted after for a few years. And pretty much any player from the 80s thru current - once they retire, the price goes down. There's no shot for them to achieve any more records and such, so those cards drop like a brick once retirement is announced.
                              "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I know I am very late to the party on this one, and I no longer collect cards. What turned me off was a rookie card of a player that hadn't played yet. In early 1992 ,I was about 15 maybe already 16, I walked into a card store in my town. Saw they had a Brien Taylor rookie for $25. I asked the guy working there and he tried to sell me on how it will be worth $50 by the end of the year. I said, "$25 for a card of someone who has never even thrown a pitch in the pros?" He even showed me the price guide and it was listed for $30. I walked out of the store and I was done with cards.

                                When I think of rookie cards, I think of the card after their rookie year. Darryl Strawberry was NL ROY in 1983. His "rookie cards" were the 84 sets. Yes, some considered the 83 Topps Traded or Fleer Update as his true rookie, but those were so rare and I knew very few people who cared about the Topps Traded or Fleer Update cards.

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