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FBI Warning: 70% Of Autographs Sold On-line Are Fake.

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  • FBI Warning: 70% Of Autographs Sold On-line Are Fake.

    Wow. I would hate to be an employee of JSA. Pretty good fake of the Sal Bando 8x10 too.
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  • #2
    That's the thing about these authenticators. These people give a 5-10 second look at your item and then gives the Yes or No. Sometimes I think they'll give the Yes just to bulk up their list of authenticated items. It shouldn't matter but I wonder if they will take more time looking at a popular player's sig over a lesser known.
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    • #3
      It's all opinion anyway. The best anyone, even the most learned of authenticators, can say is "In my opinion that autograph is genuine."

      In the end all the authenticators have is their credibility. Some people, they could spend hours doing meticulous research before you'll accept their opinion; others, they can render a verdict after looking at an item for three seconds, but because the guy making the opinion is well-known and well-respected, you accept it without hesitation.
      X
      What's THAT guy doing?
      - one of the YES Network broadcasters, after the camera cut to me doing the thumbs-down after Todd Frazier's home run

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      • #4
        This is the reason I refuse to spend any money buying autographs from stores like Steiner.
        I have about 400 autographed Items. I know a large percentage of them
        are real because I got them personally. No questions asked.
        Out of the 400. I have about 15 or so that where given to me as gifts and Yes, I do wonder if there real. But, I won't tell the person who gave them to me that.
        I've even tried to compare them to others that I see online.
        Now, that I just recently started doing TTM. I even wonder if those are real
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        • #5
          I would hope that a player would actually sign a card personally if it came ttm, especially if it cost money. How long does it take to sign a card, really? A couple seconds?
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          • #6
            That's why I put very little trust in all these authenticating companies, even PSA/DNA. I think people are in denial about how arbitrary the process is because they've always wanted to find a way to get a 100% answer and all of the sudden the "authenticating" companies show up and offer them the ability to "know" if their autograph is 100% real. But it's really just some guys opinion. It seems borderline a scam to me. A legal scam.
            Last edited by EricDavis; 02-04-2008, 10:51 AM.
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            • #7
              This is why, if I can, I'll buy an autographed insert if I want a player's signature and can't get it IP. However, sometimes autographed inserts can't suffice because the player has died or is simply too obscure. In the latter case, it's pretty safe to say that few people go out of their way to forge the signature of a career Minor Leaguer or Quad-A player (i.e. Bill Schuster, Tom Seats). I do trust PSA/DNA simply because I know how they operate, but don't put much faith in a lot of the other companies (JSA among them). Even so, I'll only buy an item that has already been PSA/DNA certified; I won't go out of my way to get an item appraised by them.

              I can certainly sympathize with that card dealer, and can immediately tell you that the signatures that get forged are of stars, semi-stars, and hot prospects. They also tend to go for easier signatures to fake for the most part (although there have been some pretty elaborate hoaxes with guys like Greg Maddux). Nobody in their right mind is going to forge Lou Sleater's autograph. It's too complex and he's too obscure. On the other hand, a post-stroke Buck Leonard signature is a prime target. Because of the shaky penmanship, a post-stroke Leonard signature is VERY easy to fake and also brings in money. Other prime candidates for forgery are Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle. Then there are forgeries that are actually quite difficult, but also difficult to spot. A ball or card signed by Chien-Ming Wang is actually rather tough to fake...if you can read Chinese characters. But a decent enough portion of his fans out there don't and thus can be suckered into buying even a dreadful forgery.

              Then there are signatures that change over the years. My Dad witnessed Sandy Koufax sign a J.D. McCarthy postcard in 1958 for him. 90% of the signatures I've seen of Koufax don't really look like it (although if you check out his rookie card and other early Topps cards with repro signatures, the repro signature is actually close). I also know that Vida Blue's signature changed over the years.

              All in all, I'd trust a company like Steiner contrary to what one poster mentioned above, as well as PSA/DNA, but beyond that? Then you start getting into "this guy was a Quad-A player/has an incredibly complex and distinct signature/I've compared it to at least a dozen others online and have researched it for days, so I doubt it's a fake and I'll buy it" territory.
              "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
              -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

              Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

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              • #8
                Here's my guess as to why JSA spent less time authenticating the Sal Bando autograph:

                1) Sal Bando autographs don't sell for much money, so there isn't as much incentive to forge.

                2) The authenticators were at a Sal Bando signing and had no reason to believe that anyone would try to get away with passing a fake auto.

                3) The woman presenting the autograph for authentication didn't "look" like a professional autograph forger.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hudsonharden View Post
                  Here's my guess as to why JSA spent less time authenticating the Sal Bando autograph:

                  1) Sal Bando autographs don't sell for much money, so there isn't as much incentive to forge.

                  2) The authenticators were at a Sal Bando signing and had no reason to believe that anyone would try to get away with passing a fake auto.

                  3) The woman presenting the autograph for authentication didn't "look" like a professional autograph forger.
                  As much as your reasons are valid. I would be leary of getting anything done by them because what if I had a A-Rod 8x10? Would they simply glance at tit and call it good too?
                  Click here to see my autographed 8x10 collection

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AutographCollector View Post
                    As much as your reasons are valid. I would be leary of getting anything done by them because what if I had a A-Rod 8x10? Would they simply glance at tit and call it good too?
                    I would hope that they would scrutinize an A-Rod 8x10 a little bit more, since it would fetch a much higher price than Sal Bando. Why didn't the authenticators have a table right next to Mr. Bando and anyone else who was signing and authenticate once they saw the autograph take place? That would make the most sense.
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                    • #11
                      authentication

                      Why don't they authenticate what they watch him sign? "Authenticating" anything else isn't really authentication. It is an opinion only (and in my view shouldn't be trusted). I certainly wouldn't ever pay for authentication.

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                      • #12
                        Practically every seller on Ebay give some sort of "COA." About 95% of those, I'm guessing, are bogus companies or the COA is made and sent by the seller. So many people claim they have a genuine item, or their card is in mint, etc and it really means nothing in the long run. Bottom line is: stick with the known companies- there is a lot of crap out there.
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                        • #13
                          Actually, I think if you're really desperate about getting something certified and have to sell it (or, for folks like us, say you want to trade for a high-dollar TTM auto but the guy you're trading with wants authentification), then you should go with PSA/DNA. They DO NOT inspect autographs like JSA does and they are the one company I truly trust for star autos (not counting baseball card autos certified by the company...Upper Deck Authentification, for example, is incredibly methodical).

                          "Why don't they authenticate what they watch him sign?"

                          Good question. PSA/DNA isn't usually at card signings, so I can't speak for them, but I know GAI employees try to watch card signings.

                          "About 95% of those, I'm guessing, are bogus companies or the COA is made and sent by the seller."

                          I'm guessing you're exaggerating, but you'd be surprised how close you are. About 80%-85% of the COA's are SELLER-ISSUED. I avoid these guys like the plague (in my auto collection elsewhere on these boards, "eBay, COA" could be interpreted to mean "COA not issued by the seller, but also not by PSA/DNA or Steiner, whom I trust implicitly") and I'm even willing to pay extra to avoid these seller COA's. The figure is actually higher with signed baseballs, which I avoid altogether unless I witness them being signed or they're certified by a card company as part of a promotion.

                          "Bottom line is: stick with the known companies- there is a lot of crap out there."

                          Couldn't have said it better myself.
                          Last edited by Dalkowski110; 02-10-2008, 09:47 PM.
                          "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
                          -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

                          Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dalkowski110 View Post
                            "About 95% of those, I'm guessing, are bogus companies or the COA is made and sent by the seller."

                            I'm guessing you're exaggerating, but you'd be surprised how close you are. About 80%-85% of the COA's are SELLER-ISSUED. I avoid these guys like the plague (in my auto collection elsewhere on these boards, "eBay, COA" could be interpreted to mean "COA not issued by the seller, but also not by PSA/DNA or Steiner, whom I trust implicitly") and I'm even willing to pay extra to avoid these seller COA's.
                            There's nothing wrong with a certificate of authenticity issued by a seller IF the seller is willing to back it up. The majority of COAs are nothing more than a statement of opinion anyway, so if Joe Sixpack the seller is able to earn a reputation for backing up his COAs (opinions), prospective buyers shouldn't hesitate to buy from him.
                            X
                            What's THAT guy doing?
                            - one of the YES Network broadcasters, after the camera cut to me doing the thumbs-down after Todd Frazier's home run

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hudsonharden View Post
                              Here's my guess as to why JSA spent less time authenticating the Sal Bando autograph:

                              1) Sal Bando autographs don't sell for much money, so there isn't as much incentive to forge.

                              2) The authenticators were at a Sal Bando signing and had no reason to believe that anyone would try to get away with passing a fake auto.

                              3) The woman presenting the autograph for authentication didn't "look" like a professional autograph forger.
                              What does a professional Autograph forger look like?
                              sigpic
                              As of 1/11/15 7369 Autographs and Growing!! 6472 of which are Baseball!
                              164 Pieces of Sports Memorabilia

                              Check out my Ebay listings!! Seller ID Howiek1227

                              Some of my Memorabilia Collection
                              http://photobucket.com/HowiesMemo
                              Check out my new Blog
                              www.strongislandgrapher.blogspot.com

                              Comment

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