The Bitter Rivals Thread

[YankeeMan]

Bite me Beantown!

Zim hadn't even touched Pedro and raised his hands when Pedro grabbed at him -- Pedro is a "donkey's butt" -- nothing anyone can say will change my opinion.

Then someone jumps into the bullpen.

Disgusting.

BOSTON: "Ya got no class."

Yankees win and, hopefully, a few more people will be pulling for the Yankees now.

[Mattingly]

Pedro's all macho when he's got Ortiz and Tek behind him. He points to Posada, then the temple, like he's gonna toss at him as he so pleases. Pedro got hit, so it didn't surprise me one bit that, taken out of his zone where he's dominating us, which he obviously couldn't, he had to hit Karim Garcia. Why hit him? Just pitch to him.

Manny, I think he overreacted, since even Roger took a pitch behind him from Shawn Estes when he'd itched at Shea, but both benches were warned. Why approach the mound if you're not hit?

If someone can defend Pedro, that he has any class, that he doesn't mouth off and gets all "brave" when he's got a bunch of guys behind him, be my guest.

Pedro has no class, he is unable to dominate the Yankees (as he hasn't this year), and Clemens won the battle. I'd now like to sweep Fenway, and let the garbage being thrown onto their own field fly away, like four years ago! I'll party like it's 1999, same results, including in the WS! This ain't Pedro's year!

[Imapotato]

ok Mattingly...I'll try

1st) It looks like Pedro was saying "he's (something) in the head", maybe about Garcia taking th ebeaning out on Walker. I am not an expert lip reader but I really think he that's what he said and not "I'll hit you in the head"

2nd) Why hit Karim Garcia??? One of the easier outs in the lineup, Pedro didn't have his best stuff, was hardly thowing fastballs, so I give him the benefit of the doubt and say that the ball slipped. That curve to Jeter leads me to believe his pitches were not high on the control meter tonight.

3rd) Clemens saw what he could get away with w/o plunking Ramirez, point to Roger for stating "I could have..." yet not doing something that would have got him tossed.

4th) Ramirez was looking for a fight, and that guy has two brain cells and ones in a coma, so I expect idiocy from him. Totally uncalled for...then he GDP next at bat...Great going Manny

5th) Zimmer was at fault for the throw down, I remember what kind of player he was...and not his charming old 72yr old bench coach rep. He was charging Pedro...think...what would you do if someone did that to you...STOP, if you thought about it you are wrong. There is no time to think, Pedro's actions were a REFLEX, nothing more...and you could see it on his face that he was shocked at the whole ordeal. But Zimmer should have come after him and def should NOT have raised his hand...that's a fight or flight reaction and Pedro isn't a run away sort of guy.

Anyway, fights have been apart of baseball for 140 years now...competitive men, who stick up for their teammates, stuff like this is bound to happen, and hey...we will all be glued to our seats for next game won't we?

[Imapotato]

Im witcha homey (4 man)

I hate that bag mic...what's the charm of hearing SCREECH..THUMP?

[YankeeMan]

If you are 31 and in great phsyical shape and you get "charged" by a 72-year old man you'd toss him to the ground too?

What about a lil' 9 year old girl?

Team mascot?

Paraplegics?

Give me a break -- it was uncalled for!

Pedro is a woosie -- If he wants a fight, I can clear my schedule.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Imapotato
ok Mattingly...I'll try

1st) It looks like Pedro was saying "he's (something) in the head", maybe about Garcia taking th ebeaning out on Walker. I am not an expert lip reader but I really think he that's what he said and not "I'll hit you in the head"

2nd) Why hit Karim Garcia??? One of the easier outs in the lineup, Pedro didn't have his best stuff, was hardly thowing fastballs, so I give him the benefit of the doubt and say that the ball slipped. That curve to Jeter leads me to believe his pitches were not high on the control meter tonight.

3rd) Clemens saw what he could get away with w/o plunking Ramirez, point to Roger for stating "I could have..." yet not doing something that would have got him tossed.

4th) Ramirez was looking for a fight, and that guy has two brain cells and ones in a coma, so I expect idiocy from him. Totally uncalled for...then he GDP next at bat...Great going Manny

5th) Zimmer was at fault for the throw down, I remember what kind of player he was...and not his charming old 72yr old bench coach rep. He was charging Pedro...think...what would you do if someone did that to you...STOP, if you thought about it you are wrong. There is no time to think, Pedro's actions were a REFLEX, nothing more...and you could see it on his face that he was shocked at the whole ordeal. But Zimmer should have come after him and def should NOT have raised his hand...that's a fight or flight reaction and Pedro isn't a run away sort of guy.

Anyway, fights have been apart of baseball for 140 years now...competitive men, who stick up for their teammates, stuff like this is bound to happen, and hey...we will all be glued to our seats for next game won't we?

Pedro's gotten into a fracas with Posada before, from the last time he'd pitched against the Yanks I believe. To me, he was totally wrong, since he couldn't get players out, Jeter hit one *completely* over the Monster and out of Fenway on him, and he was the losing pitcher. Score was 4-2 against him at the time, which he's not used to. IMO, that's the *real* reason Pedro reacted so bizarrely. He can't handle losing, much like a bully finally getting his butt whipped.

1. You shouldn't go about pointing your hand to your head like you're going to hit someone. IMO, that deserves a fine and suspension, since it's threatening to hit someone in the temple, which is where he'd pointed to on himself, then pointed to Posada. You know any sane people who threaten to hit an opponent with 90mph heat in the temple? Had he learned to hit the zone, he wouldn't have need to be so violent. At least Clemens held himself together, both mentally and in the game, striking out Manny after it was all over.

2. I won't give Pedro the benefit of the doubt. Karim's a lefty, and a righty was up next, so it's the old "hit a lefty, put him on base, then get the righty to GIDP" seemed to be put into effect. Someone said he'd done that before, but I'm unsure if it was Anaheim or Oakland. How do you give someone the benefit when it's 90mph at his head? You can kill a man like that.

3. Roger's pitch never hit anyone. Manny ducked as if it were closer, but he'd have needed to be Randy Johnson to get buzzed by that pitch. Roger could've hit Manny had he wanted to, since both pitchers in the highly anticipated pitcher's duel are control freaks. No way Pedro's pitch "just slipped", and no way that Roger missed that much had he wanted to hit Manny.

4. Someone said that Manny was into his "be glad Ortiz is holding me back" thing, so he didn't look too macho. Besides, Roger went forward also, and I don't think Manny wanted to fight. Violence avoided, and happily so.

5. I can't tell if Zim was trying to hit Pedro or stop him, but at that age, you can't control your actions. I do know that if a man 40 years my senior did that to me, I wouldn't have pushed his head to the floor. Reaction, sucker punch, whatever, you at least try stopping him from hitting you.

With all that excitement, you can't expect someone coming at you? Aren't your nerves on high mode to expect danger, rather than being on the mound? That's what I'd be expecting.

Yes, fights are part of the game. However, why try hitting a man in the head at 90mph when you could hit him at 75 in the rear? Perhaps the next time Pedro gets schooled by a team which finally learns to hit, and by a pitcher 10 years his senior, he should simply accept the loss intead of trying to get people to forget this by beaning somebody.

Oh well, at least now he finally realizes he's responsible for his actions, and that he can't forever be the "little innocent guy" who happens to plunk people. If he pitches a little better next time, that won't happen. Then again, moot point, since his velocity's down, so he's probably not as dominating as he's used to.

[Mattingly]

As I was posting before the site went down:

The fact that Pedro Martinez pointed directly at Jorge Posada, made a motion to his own temple then again pointed at Posada, shows IMO that Pedro Martinez has no problem throwing at people, including to hurt someone. If in the future someone wants to tell me that Roger Clemens is a "headhunter", taunts the other side, I would ask them to view the replay of the incident.

It was Roger Clemens who didn't throw down any 72 year old men. It was Roger Clemens who didn't hit a batter all today, and it was the Yankee staff which didn't hit *any* BoSox batters all series. In fact, that brushback pitch to Ortiz never even hit him. Anyone wish to say that Yankee pitchers hit people when they're pitching poorly, they should check the HBP count.

Pedro to me is a sick puppy. I have never heard of Bob Gibson, Drysdale, Ryan or Clemens taunting the opposing dugout like this, in addition to his well-known staredowns of strikeout victims. It was if you went around the bases like Manny did recently at Oakland, or like Carl Everett used to, you'd get hit. Not like this, and throwing at Garcia's head. Thank goodness they stopped the beer sales immediately, and that Manny was led away immediately by Ortiz. This whole thing was ridiculous.

[Mattingly]

Lastly, I also think that Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia being possibly held for assault is bogus. Which police department allows some grounds crew staffer to yell at the bullpen for the entire game? Then when something happens, which should've been prevented a long time ago, they want to take a few members of the Yankees out of the game?

Had the cops been competent, they'd have quelled this Fenway employee a long time ago. If either is held or arrested, seems like funny business keeping a player away from games when the cops should've kept that guy in check about 2 hours earlier. Very funny indeed.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by YankeeMan
If you are 31 and in great phsyical shape and you get "charged" by a 72-year old man you'd toss him to the ground too?

What about a lil' 9 year old girl?

Team mascot?

Paraplegics?

Give me a break -- it was uncalled for!

Pedro is a woosie -- If he wants a fight, I can clear my schedule.

The only one Yankee Pedro could toss to the ground is Zim, aka, "Popeye". He must be feeling pretty good about himself, seeing he was getting spanked like he's unused to out there, in his own backyard, too.

I guess he's feeling pretty tough. I guess we can get some girl scouts or some guy with a broken hand to be pushed over next time.

Not once have I ever seen any Yankee do that to any Boston player. Between that, then threatening to hit Posada in the head, he needs a serious fine, suspension and some quiet time away from the game. His game is off and that's how he reacts? Try improving your conditioning so you can pitch further into the year, is my suggestion.

[YankeeMan]

Pedro the Woosie!

I can't wait until the little rubberband in his arm snaps and his career is over.

[Mattingly]

Re: Pedro the Woosie!

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I can't wait until the little rubberband in his arm snaps and his career is over.

Clemens is 6-4, about 250, can handle working late into the postseason, as he's done starting in 1986. Pedro is about 5-11, 180 soaking wet, isn't likely in great condition later into the postseason. I think that's why his velocity went down: he's not in that great a shape. Granted, he's on a team which doesn't often get to October, he should at least have had more in the tank tonight. IMO, that was his obligation to his teammates and fans.

If that's how he approaches the game of his life, in the one season where Bostonians felt, moreso than others, that they could actually at least make it past the Yanks, then IMO, he's already started a major step towards being finished: the mental part.

Like game 5 in Oakland, this was a monster game for them. You're the ace, so-called best pitcher in baseball and that's how you show up, hitting high 80s, low 90s on the gun? He should stick to the regular season, since he's not used to the marathon that ends in October. Glad Clemens won, Pedro got the loss, Mo got the save.

Two more wins at Fenway and I'll be a happy camper!

[YankeeMan]

Beanballs?

Originally posted by KenFougere
If there is 1 stray pitch, they all better put their helmet straps on and start digging a fox-hole...

Truer words were never spoken. Premonition?

Hey, you any good at picking Super Bowl winners?

[brewcrew82]

Re: Bite me Beantown!

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Yankees win and, hopefully, a few more people will be pulling for the Yankees now.

Heres one...I at first didn't mind who won the series but now I've joined the "dark side".

[Mattingly]

I still haven't heard anything from the Boston regulars. It's your team involved, just as ours. YM and myself, both Mods, have chimed in very much and very specific in what we'd felt also. Ken, VT, Biggerin, others? Let's hear it!

[bigtime39]

UGH!

At first, I was neutral on the Cubs-Marlins NLCS, and rooting AGAINST the Yankees in the ALCS. ( As an Orioles fan, I feel that's the proper approach to the ALCS)...
After yesterday, I say a pox on BOTH their houses. I can't root for the Yankees and their unlimited cash flow, their refusal to conform to league rules on uniforms and jackets, and their general arrogance. Now I can't root for the RED SOX EITHER!
(BTW, rports on ESPN.com indicate that while Zimmer IS in fact, 72, and looks like your grandpa over there on the bench, in person, he ain't real pleasant.)
So, for me, a saddend Orioles fan (hey, its our 50th anniversary next year. Think MLB will let US get away with hat logos and special game balls, like that enormous cash cow to the north of us? Me, neither), there is only one thing left to say:
GO CUBS!!! WIN IT ALL!!! PLEASE!!!