The Bitter Rivals Thread

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
I still haven't heard anything from the Boston regulars. It's your team involved, just as ours. YM and myself, both Mods, have chimed in very much and very specific in what we'd felt also. Ken, VT, Biggerin, others? Let's hear it!

I voiced my opinion right after the incident...

[KenFougere]

Remember my Boston rotation?

This postponement definately favors Boston. It brings Wakefield up in place of Burkett for game four and allows Lowe to pitch in his favorite park, Fenway . . .

My predicted {and hoped for} Red Sox starting pitcher rotation has come true :

• Tim Wakefield
• Derek Lowe
• Pedro Martinez
• Rain !

[YankeeMan]

For Ken...

BOSTON RED SOX TO NEW YORK YANKEES FAN CONVERSION FORM
Thank you for your interest in becoming a member of The New York Yankees Fan Club. Due to an unprecedented volume of requests, we are currently processing only fan conversion revisitations for Boston Red Sox fans. Conversion requests for other teams will be accepted once all former Red Sox fan requests have been processed. We expect this to take a number of weeks based on the current number of requests. Please take a few minutes and complete the conversion form below to help us get to know you better and prescribe any required counseling to recover from your previous fan experience.

1. Please indicate the last time you watched the Red Sox win the World Series
__ 1918 (Please leave your form in the main office of your nursing home for mailing.)
__ I have never witnessed this event

2. Please indicate your favorite moments in Red Sox history (Check all that apply)
__ Babe Ruth sold to the Yankees
__ Pesky holds ball as the Yankees score the winning run in 1948
__ Bob Gibson shuts down the Sox in the 1967 series
__ Sox trade Sparky Lyle to the Yankees for Danny Carter
__ Big Red Machine beats the Sox in game 7 of the 1975 series
__ Sox lose 14 1/2 game lead to the Yankees in 1978
__ The "Boston Massacre" in 1978
__ Bucky Dent's homer in the 1978 playoff game
__ Bob Stanley throws wild pitch in the 6th game of the 1986 series
__ Grounder goes through Buckner's legs in the 6th game of the 1986 Series
__ Future Hall-of-Famer, Wade Boggs rides policeman's horse after the Yanks win the 1996 series
__ Future Hall-of-Famer, Roger Clemens traded to the Yankees
__ Yanks wipe out Sox in 5 games in the 1999 ALCS
__ Roger Clemens wins game 4 for the Yankees to clinch the 1999 World Series

3. Reasons you believe the Red Sox have NOT won a World Series since 1918 (Check all that apply)
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Lack of Pitching
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Lack of Hitting
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Lack of Defense
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Bad calls by the umps
__ The Curse of The Bambino

4. Have you experienced any of the following symptoms after another inevitable Red Sox collapse? (Check all that apply)
__ Headache
__ Uncontrollable anger
__ Heartache
__ Holes punched in doors/windows
__ Nausea
__ Smashed TV screens
__ Depression
__ Avoided Yankee fans for 3 or more days

5. October is your favorite month of the year?
__ Yes
__ No
6. Are you tired of saying, "Wait Until Next Year?"
__Yes
__No

After reviewing your request, the Yankees Fan Club will contact you with notification of acceptance or rejection.

If accepted, you will receive:
A recommended recuperation program, including a recording of Frank Sinatra singing "New York, New York"
An opportunity to obtain tickets to future World Series at Yankee Stadium
An "I've Come to my Senses" Yankee T-shirt
Chuck Knoblauch's new video, "Illusions: How to Almost Catch Balls and Tag Runners"
Posters of Boggs and Clemens in Yankee uniforms, complete with their championship rings
A copy of our ever popular handbook, "Harassing Red Sox Fans For Fun and Profit"
A coupon for a future poster of Pedro Martinez in a Yankee uniform, complete with his Yankee championship ring
A one year subscription to a weekly support group for ex-Red Sox fans in your area.

If rejected, you will receive:
Our pity and condolences
A 25-second video capturing the past 100 years of Red Sox highlights in head-to-head competition against the Yankees.

Thank you in advance for your patience during this period of an unprecedented number of applications.

[KenFougere]

Re: For Ken...

Originally posted by YankeeMan
BOSTON RED SOX TO NEW YORK YANKEES FAN CONVERSION FORM
Thank you for your interest in becoming a member of The New York Yankees Fan Club. Due to an unprecedented volume of requests, we are currently processing only fan conversion revisitations for Boston Red Sox fans. Conversion requests for other teams will be accepted once all former Red Sox fan requests have been processed. We expect this to take a number of weeks based on the current number of requests. Please take a few minutes and complete the conversion form below to help us get to know you better and prescribe any required counseling to recover from your previous fan experience.

1. Please indicate the last time you watched the Red Sox win the World Series
__ 1918 (Please leave your form in the main office of your nursing home for mailing.)
__ I have never witnessed this event

2. Please indicate your favorite moments in Red Sox history (Check all that apply)
__ Babe Ruth sold to the Yankees
__ Pesky holds ball as the Yankees score the winning run in 1948
__ Bob Gibson shuts down the Sox in the 1967 series
__ Sox trade Sparky Lyle to the Yankees for Danny Carter
__ Big Red Machine beats the Sox in game 7 of the 1975 series
__ Sox lose 14 1/2 game lead to the Yankees in 1978
__ The "Boston Massacre" in 1978
__ Bucky Dent's homer in the 1978 playoff game
__ Bob Stanley throws wild pitch in the 6th game of the 1986 series
__ Grounder goes through Buckner's legs in the 6th game of the 1986 Series
__ Future Hall-of-Famer, Wade Boggs rides policeman's horse after the Yanks win the 1996 series
__ Future Hall-of-Famer, Roger Clemens traded to the Yankees
__ Yanks wipe out Sox in 5 games in the 1999 ALCS
__ Roger Clemens wins game 4 for the Yankees to clinch the 1999 World Series

3. Reasons you believe the Red Sox have NOT won a World Series since 1918 (Check all that apply)
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Lack of Pitching
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Lack of Hitting
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Lack of Defense
__ The Curse of The Bambino
__ Bad calls by the umps
__ The Curse of The Bambino

4. Have you experienced any of the following symptoms after another inevitable Red Sox collapse? (Check all that apply)
__ Headache
__ Uncontrollable anger
__ Heartache
__ Holes punched in doors/windows
__ Nausea
__ Smashed TV screens
__ Depression
__ Avoided Yankee fans for 3 or more days

5. October is your favorite month of the year?
__ Yes
__ No
6. Are you tired of saying, "Wait Until Next Year?"
__Yes
__No

After reviewing your request, the Yankees Fan Club will contact you with notification of acceptance or rejection.

If accepted, you will receive:
A recommended recuperation program, including a recording of Frank Sinatra singing "New York, New York"
An opportunity to obtain tickets to future World Series at Yankee Stadium
An "I've Come to my Senses" Yankee T-shirt
Chuck Knoblauch's new video, "Illusions: How to Almost Catch Balls and Tag Runners"
Posters of Boggs and Clemens in Yankee uniforms, complete with their championship rings
A copy of our ever popular handbook, "Harassing Red Sox Fans For Fun and Profit"
A coupon for a future poster of Pedro Martinez in a Yankee uniform, complete with his Yankee championship ring
A one year subscription to a weekly support group for ex-Red Sox fans in your area.

If rejected, you will receive:
Our pity and condolences
A 25-second video capturing the past 100 years of Red Sox highlights in head-to-head competition against the Yankees.

Thank you in advance for your patience during this period of an unprecedented number of applications.

I LOVE this rivalry!

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by KenFougere
I LOVE this rivalry!

Isn't it grand?!

And just think, for a lil' while we won't have to hear about how this rivalry is "only between the fans."

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
I voiced my opinion right after the incident...

Which thread and what time? This seems to be the first post from you I've seen on this.

[Mattingly]

Re: Remember my Boston rotation?

Originally posted by KenFougere
This postponement definately favors Boston. It brings Wakefield up in place of Burkett for game four and allows Lowe to pitch in his favorite park, Fenway . . .

My predicted {and hoped for} Red Sox starting pitcher rotation has come true :

• Tim Wakefield
• Derek Lowe
• Pedro Martinez
• Rain !

I'm curious, how does it favor Boston? It's expected to be:

Mussina-Wakefield (Mon, Fenway)
Wells-Lowe (Tue, Fenway)
Pettitte-Burkett (Wed, YS)
Clemens-Pedro (Thu, YS)

Are you referring to the exclusion of Burkett? He's still expected for the 6th game, right?

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Which thread and what time? This seems to be the first post from you I've seen on this.

10-11-2003 05:57 PM - This thread, you replied to it.

[Mattingly]

Thanks, Ken.

[KenFougere]

B I G - G A M E

T O D A Y - :gt

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
B I G - G A M E If Boomer can finish off the 7th, I'm not too sure about that, at least from Boston's perspective.

*Crosses fingers*

T O D A Y - :gt

[KenFougere]

Well,

It's all up-hill from here . . . Not impossible, but . . .

:gt

[Chisox73]

Originally posted by KenFougere
Well,

It's all up-hill from here . . . Not impossible, but . . .

:gt

If the Cubs can win the pennant,anything is possible.

[YankeeMan]

Originally posted by Chisox73 If the Cubs can win the pennant,anything is possible.

True enough!

[YankeeMan]

ESPN.com

Welcome to the Terrordome
Written by Jim Caple

I wore a Red Sox T-shirt in the Yankee Stadium bleachers and a Yankees T-shirt in the Fenway Park bleachers during the playoffs this past week. And having done so, an apology might be in order for all the Yankees fans I have gleefully insulted over the past few years.

Not that I actually WILL apologize, mind you. I'm just saying that an apology would be in order if I was a bigger man.

I wore the Boston shirt on the subway to Yankee Stadium for Game 2. And I wore it for an hour outside the stadium. And I wore it in the bleachers for three innings. And no one offered so much as a single unpleasant remark. Not one. In fact, one Yankee fan even held the door open for me at the McDonald's across from the stadium.

Jim in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium -- can you believe he got away with this?
They were so damn pleasant about it that I don't think I was even in New York.

Sure, I got some cross looks. And I got some comments. But they were all in the "Hey, there's a Red Sox fan. Let's have some fun with him because we know we're going to win this series anyway'' variety. Red Sox fans may hate Yankees fans, but not vice-versa. It's like Bogie says in "Casablanca" when Peter Lorre asks whether he despises him. "I suppose I would if I gave you any thought whatsoever."

The only potentially ugly moment was when one fan in the bleachers looked at my shirt and shook his head. I told him he looked disgusted, and he came back at me and said, "What did you call me?"

"I said you look disgusted by my shirt."

"Oh," he said. "I thought you said I was disgusting. I was about to rip your friggin' head off."

In Boston, on the other hand, I received much more abuse, usually of the "Yankees suck!" variety, with some additional thoughts on homosexuality.

In contrast to Yankee Stadium, where there were many Red Sox fans, there were only a handful of Yankees shirts at Fenway. Which isn't to say there weren't Yankees fans. As one New York fan said while slapping me on the back, "I'm rooting for the Yankees, too. Only I'm smart enough not to wear a shirt advertising it here."

Perhaps, but there's a certain amount of pride and spirit involved for a fan to not only go into enemy territory but to do so brazenly. You have to admire someone who loves his team enough to endure abuse and risk bodily harm. Although you can definitely take this too far. Those two Red Sox fans who kept standing up and flipping off the rest of the Yankees fans were way out of line. Hey, boys, if you want someone to kick your asses, I'm sure there are some S&M clubs where they'll gladly do it for less money than a playoff ticket costs.

Naturally, there are other emotions involved when you don the shirt of a team you hate. I'm proud to say that I had never before worn any article of clothing with a Yankees logo on it, so pulling that New York shirt over my head was the most disagreeable thing I've ever had to do as a writer. It was even worse than when I had to buy a ticket to watch "Gigli" for a review.

(On the other hand, it was better than putting on one of those ridiculous "Cowboy Up" shirts. Are you tired of that expression yet, or what? What's next? Belt buckles the size of the plate in Don Zimmer's head? C'mon, Boston. You're the home of Harvard and MIT, of Longfellow, Thoreau and Sargent, you're the intellectual center of the country, the Athens of America. Enough with the cowboy hats and bandanas. You look like a bunch of little kids waiting for their ice cream and cake at a birthday party.)

Jim Caple outside Fenway -- good thing he wasn't near Jeff Nelson.
Anyway, when another incognito Yankee fan gave me the thumbs up for my attire, I quickly asked where HIS shirt was.

"Same place yours is going to be in a minute," said a fan glowering at me from the sidewalk. He wore a T-shirt that featured a Calvin and Hobbes character urinating on the Yankees logo.

"What do you mean by that?" I replied.

The fan glared some more and mumbled something under his breath. If I was so inclined (i.e. drunk and stupid), this minor incident easily could have escalated into a fight. But it didn't. I was sober and I can't take any insult seriously from a man who would wear a T-shirt of a person urinating in public.

(Not to go all Tipper Gore on you, but I'll never understand what possesses some people to wear shirts that read, "Yankees Suck" or "Nomar Swallows" or "You can take your 26 rings and shove them up your ---" or something even worse in public. I'm not saying these shirts should be banned at stadiums; but good God, have some sense of personal decorum, will you?)

Game 3, of course, was as wild a game as I've ever seen; and before the day was over, 72-year-old bench coach Don Zimmer had left the park in an ambulance and the police were considering whether to arrest Jeff Nelson for fighting a groundskeeper in the bullpen. But wandering around in the bleachers with my Yankees shirt in the seventh inning (I didn't wear it the first six innings while I sat in the auxiliary press box), I didn't receive much abuse. People were too much into the game to pay much attention to an idiot in a Yankees shirt. The Red Sox said only one person was arrested at the game, substantially under the norm for a Yankees-Red Sox game, and I don't doubt it.

The most interesting moment happened during the bottom of the seventh when I bought a bratwurst at the concession stand while watching the game on the TV monitor. When I saw Bill Mueller single to put runners on first and third with nobody out, I took a bite from my bratwurst and turned to head back to the auxiliary pressbox. A half-dozen Red Sox fans blocked my path.

"You're not going anywhere, buddy."

"What do you mean?" I asked.

"You're staying right here."

"What are you talking about?" I said. "You guys don't want me around here."

"Yeah, we do. We want to see your face when we rally."

Deciding to taunt a little, I told them that wasn't going to happen. "Nixon is going to ground into a double play."

"No, he won't. And besides, a doubleplay will still score a run."

"So, what?" I said. "You need two runs. He'll ground into a double play and you won't score again. Because that's the way it always works."

"You're still staying here."

OK, I replied, and returned my attention to the TV monitor ... just in time to see Nixon ground into a rally-killing 4-6-3 double play.

"See?" I said, turning around to face the six fans. Only no one was there. They were all slinking away as quietly as possible.

And in that moment, I suddenly knew what it was like to be a Yankee fan. And as much as I hate to admit, it felt pretty good.

But the feeling wore off pretty quickly. I mean, everybody loves their team, but it just seems so unfulfilling when outrageous success is expected each year rather than anticipated over many summers. Where's the fun in winning if you take it as a Constitutional right? Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Ticketmaster, only with better T-shirts.

So in closing, I wore the enemy colors in both stadiums; and I not only lived to tell about it, I can say it's safer than wearing them in the visiting team's bullpen.

And if anyone wants the Yankees shirt, let me know. I'll tell you which dumpster I left it in.

Who woulda' thunk it?