The Bitter Rivals Thread

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Kdub Red Sox Fan 4Life
Oh Well, It's fun to dream about. (Yanks in last )

Looks like Santa won't need to bring one of the presents though.

I've already got a strong team that could win it all in '04.

And you people have the nerve to complain when the Yankee fans get XMas presents from George.

You need a manager to get everything done, and I doubt that the career year bats can repeat themselves. Now then, how much longer before Pedro's arm falls off? Will he demand $21m for 2005?

[KenFougere]

Here you go buddy . . .

Originally posted by Mattingly
Hey, Ken, who wrote those Daily News articles? Red Sox fan Mike Lupica? Would you like me to quote Gammons or Shaughnessy for you? As much as you Boston folks complain about the local media's being harsh, you quote our local scribes? You own papers wanted to run Nomah out of town, and you're talking about the NY media?

I'm sorry Matt.
I didn't know you wanted to see baseball articles written in the Boston papers.
Here's one I hope you'll enjoy . . .

New York disharmony loud and unclear
By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff, 12/14/2003

In the end, the Yankees probably will match the Red Sox move for move, though it's hard to imagine a counterpunch that could equal the magnitude of a trade for arguably the best player in baseball, Alex Rodriguez, should the Sox pull it off. The Bombers have reinforced their bullpen, added some quality arms in their rotation, and if the Gary Sheffield deal falls apart, will undoubtedly make a grab for Vladi Guerrero, a process that might already be under way.
But if the reports emanating from Gotham are to be believed, while the Sox have been following their offseason plans with military-like precision, the Yankees have been displaying an institutional dysfunction in which owner George Steinbrenner is operating at his megalomaniacal worst.
Gene Michael, one of the shrewdest baseball minds in the Yankee organization, told Jack Curry of the New York Times that no one even asked him his opinion on a trade for pitcher Kevin Brown, a deal that was finalized yesterday, the signing of Sheffield, or a proposed deal for center fielder Kenny Lofton.
"If you ask me if they've contacted me about anything, I'll say they haven't," Michael told Curry. "That's all I can say."
Steinbrenner forbade general manager Brian Cashman from attending the winter meetings in New Orleans, and also canceled the trip of another key adviser, vice president Damon Oppenheimer. The Sheffield deal was placed in jeopardy by some bungling by the Boss that Sheffield detailed in a published report, which reportedly so annoyed Steinbrenner he was ready to call off the whole deal.
This past week, the Yankees lost elegant lefthander Andy Pettitte, the winner of so many huge games, to his hometown team, the Houston Astros, in part, it appears, because Pettitte did not feel enough love from the Yankees in their pursuit of him. On top of that, they are faced with a scenario that once seemed far-fetched but now appears to have a long-shot chance of unfolding: Roger Clemens cutting short his retirement before it even began in order to join his good buddy Pettitte in hometown Houston.
That possibility provoked a public exchange at least as heated as the one that recently took place between Sox owner John W. Henry and Arn Tellem, the agent for Nomar Garciaparra.
The New York Daily News quoted an unnamed Yankees official who was livid at the possibility of a Pettitte-Clemens reunion in Houston, and accused the Hendricks brothers, who represent the two pitchers, of conspiring to pull it off.
"This all goes to prove this whole thing by Andy and the Hendricks brothers was a ruse," the Yankees official said. "They intended to go to Houston all along. The Hendrickses were on the stadium committee there, they're all from Houston, and we're made to look like the bad guys here when they never had any intention of staying."
The brothers Hendricks did not let that accusation go unchallenged. Randy Hendricks fired off a couple of e-mails to the News.
"All along I believed the Yankees underestimated the importance of Andy Pettitte in the eyes of the fans, as well as his gritty contribution to the team," Hendricks wrote. "I believe the Yankees more highly valued Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez than Andy. Time will tell if the Yankees are correct in those evaluations."
Hendricks also addressed the Clemens situation. "Roger always said he was 99 percent retired. With Andy on the Astros, Roger might pitch one more year, but it is a real long shot. The Houston area, though, is going crazy with excitement over Andy and the prospect of Roger pitching for the Astros. Roger has always considered playing for the Astros . . . Now that one of his best friends has signed with the Astros, it's only logical that Roger be tempted. Time will tell on this."
It's not going to help organizational stability, either, that both Cashman and manager Joe Torre will have lame-duck contract status next year. That's enough to make you question why Torre, whose place in the Hall of Fame and in the affections of Yankee fans already is assured, would even chance ending his Yankee career at the mercy of Steinbrenner's whims.
And you wonder why the Sox view 2004 as their best chance yet to overtake the Empire? - -

[KenFougere]

You'll always be #1 in spending!

Originally posted by Mattingly
And you people have the nerve to complain when the Yankee fans get XMas presents from George.

You need a manager to get everything done, and I doubt that the career year bats can repeat themselves. Now then, how much longer before Pedro's arm falls off? Will he demand $21m for 2005?

I wouldn't concern myself with Boston's spending . . .
considering New York's payroll is over $40 Million more than the Red Sox.


NEW YORK YANKEES

Player, pos. 2004 salary

Derek Jeter, ss $17 million

Kevin Brown, rhp $15 million

Mike Mussina, rhp $14 million

Sheffield, rf $13 million**

Jason Giambi, 1b $12.83 million

Bernie Williams, cf $12 million

Mariano Rivera, rhp $10.89 million

Jorge Posada, c $9 million

Javier Vazquez, rhp $9 million***

Hideki Matsui, lf $7 million

Jose Contreras, rhp $7 million

Steve Karsay, rhp $5 million

Tom Gordon, rhp $3.625 million

Kenny Lofton, cf $3.5 million****

Paul Quantrill, rhp $3.4 million

Jon Lieber, rhp $2.45 million

Chris Hammond, lhp $2.4 million

Felix Heredia, lhp $1.925 million

Ruben Sierra, dh $1 million

19-player payroll $150.02 million - -



BOSTON RED SOX

Player, pos. 2004 salary

Manny Ramirez, lf $23.7 million

Pedro Martinez, rhp $17.5 million

Curt Schilling, rhp $12 million

Nomar Garciaparra, ss $11.5 million

Johnny Damon, cf $8 million

Keith Foulke, rhp $7 million

Jason Varitek, c $6.7 million

Derek Lowe, rhp $4.5 million

Tim Wakefield, rhp $4.35 million

Ramiro Mendoza, rhp $3.6 million

Kevin Millar, 1b $3.3 million

Alan Embree, lhp $2.75 million

Mike Timlin, rhp $2.75 million

Bill Mueller, 3b $2.1 million

Dave McCarty, util. $500,000

15-player payroll $110 million



**Estimated salary for Sheffield
***Vazquez's estimated salary through arbitration
****Lofton's reported salary once he signs with Yankees

[KenFougere]

You're sure about that?????? . . .

Originally posted by Mattingly
And you people have the nerve to complain when the Yankee fans get XMas presents from George.

You need a manager to get everything done, and I doubt that the career year bats can repeat themselves. Now then, how much longer before Pedro's arm falls off? Will he demand $21m for 2005?

I really, really hope the Yankees are counting on that too!

Even if the offense decreases 5-10% it's still stronger than any other team in the American League. The addition of Shilling & Foulke will more than make up for it. Pedro alone had at least 6-7 wins blown! BAM! That puts the Sox over 100 wins . . .


The King may not be dead yet, but his head's on the block and Theo has sharpened the guillotine's blade . . .

[Mattingly]

Ken, how do you count 19 Yanks, but only 15 Sox? As to Vazquez and Lofton, how did you get those figures? I only know that Vazquez got <$6m last season, so how do you figure $11m? Is Lofton's figure after all incentives have been met?
I'm wondering if I could get your recipe for creative accounting. :gt

Don't forget to subtract Hammond's contract if he's traded, and then add Pay-Rod's contract if he's traded, then subtracting Manny's. Hey, where's Soriano's contract? Oh yeah, he makes chicken feed. Figures.

We'll chat next time. In the meanwhile, please wear your pinstripes proudly, so that I'll consider having mercy on your sorry soul next October. I've asked Raco to shift that "wager" stuff to a new thread.

The King ain't dead, so long live King George! As to the guillotine, you've been sharpening that for so long, it must be able to cut a whisker by now. I suppose that, like the Jetsons cartoon, when we have motorized sidewalks in the sky and regular trips to other planets, Beantown will win it all. Until then, get used to the 21st century, buddy.

[KenFougere]

Cashman's Midnight Express . . .


That poor guy has his sentence extended . . .

NEW ORLEANS - Just how warped and dysfuncional have the Yankees become since the World Series? George Steinbrenner now punishes employees by extending their contracts - giving Brian Cashman another year, another $1.25 million, leaving his general manager only one way out of his Bronx prison: quit.

Make no mistake, Steinbrenner's handout, which was announced Sunday, has nothing to do with Cashman winning five pennants in six years. Instead, it's cold punishment for a story in Sunday's New York Post, which quoted industry peers saying Cashman intends to leave after 2004.

He's so fed up, friends say, an early dismissal would be a blessing. Steinbrenner responded quickly, tightening the shackles through 2005, effectively challenging Cashman to move on.
But, he'll never be able to excape . . .

There are obvious reasons why Cashman should quit - he's spent the last two years being berated behind the scenes, stripped of his authority, and is no longer allowed meaningful input in the Yankees' day-to-day operations.

Yet, there are just as many reasons for Cashman to stay. If he walks, he won't be allowed to work for another baseball team until 2006 unless the Yankees are compensated. Even more significantly, Cashman's resignation would mean forfeiting $2 million of Steinbrenner's cash.

When reached at his Connecticut home on Sunday, Cashman had no comment on his contract. But executives in both leagues are appalled at what The Boss has done to his honest, hard-working general manager! Prisoner in hell . . .


B. Klapisch / Bergen Record

[KenFougere]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Ken, how do you count 19 Yanks, but only 15 Sox? As to Vazquez and Lofton, how did you get those figures?
:gt

DAH! I thought the reason was obvious...
We're better than you and so we don't need as many players!!!

[Mattingly]

Ken, you ever heard of a link? I'ts something new.

I'll post back in October after the Beantown chowdas shed their 86th annual tears.

As to numbers, don't forget, since 1918, it's 26-zippo!

I'll try talking baseball tomorrow, as I've been too pooped to do anything.

[KenFougere]

Ya . . .

Originally posted by Mattingly
Ken, you ever heard of a link?
I'ts something new.

Do you mean the missing one? . . .

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by KenFougere
DAH! I thought the reason was obvious...
We're better than you and so we don't need as many players!!!

Fewer players, fewer wins. The roster will still be 25 apiece, and you've only had 5 rings, and none since ...
NINETEEN EIGHTEEN!

[rich]

He's aged gracefully

Is that Harry Frazzee?? The greatest X-MAS present: "THE BABE"

[KenFougere]

Let me know . . .


Anyone interested in tickets to the October 23rd game at Fenway Park?

[MudvilleMike]

Originally posted by Mattingly
Fewer players, fewer wins. The roster will still be 25 apiece, and you've only had 5 rings, and none since ...
NINETEEN EIGHTEEN!

Really? It's been that long?? It seemed like yesterday!

[KenFougere]

Patience, patience!

Originally posted by MudvilleMike
Really? It's been that long?? It seemed like yesterday!

October will be here before we know it !

[rich]

Buy another round

I just had a drink with Terry Francona & Smokey Joe Wood at the Cask & Flagon!