The Bitter Rivals Thread

[ElHalo]

Re: Re: Don't even mention it . . .

Originally posted by Mattingly
The trash has already left. And good riddance to all the chowdaheads who've gone.

No more "Yankees S***" chants, I see.

Now we'll have to fumigate the joint!

The saddest part of the game today had to be hearing that chant in Yankee Stadium... the Sox fans were louder than the Yankee fans in the section I was in... which for some reason, happened to pretty much be the Red Sox cheering section. My roommate is friends with a bunch of people from the Sons of Sam Horn site (dirty Sox fan, he is), and I guess they organized a bus trip or something.

[MudvilleMike]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't even mention it . . .

Originally posted by Mattingly
Your heart and soul still belongs to me, my friend!

Babe, Bucky, Boone, ... then Bush! (not the guy in the Rose Garden, either)

BTW, if it's a walkoffer in the Green Monster, the home crowd won't be cheering!

How many World Championships have the Yankees won this century? Soon it will be one less than the Red Sox.

[ElHalo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't even mention it . . .

Originally posted by MudvilleMike
How many World Championships have the Yankees won this century? Soon it will be one less than the Red Sox.

You really don't think the Yankees are going to win another championship in the next 50 years?

[Mattingly]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't even mention it . . .

Originally posted by MudvilleMike
How many World Championships have the Yankees won this century? Soon it will be one less than the Red Sox.

Yup, just like last year, and the 84 ones preceding it. What'll next ST be? 86 years?

I guess some classics are always worth renewing every single season, right? One day it'll really happy. Just wait until 2018 ... or would that be 3018, I keep forgetting!

[Biggerin]

No more "Yankees S***" chants, I see.

Nope. Guess sometimes actions are stronger than words.


And I don't believe in no curse of the bambino, billy goat, black cat, inherited middle names starting with F, magical foul ball that causes 8 runs to score, etc.

Think about it. If there IS a curse, what's THE biggest sin in baseball? Bigger than betting, or perhaps the reason betting is the sin that it is. Throwing a game.

Now, what's the biggest game thrown in the history of baseball, or more precisely, games?

The 1919 World Series. The offending team? the Chicago White Sox.

After the 1919 season, the boston red sox sold their best player to the new york yankees and made a plethora of inexplicable bad decisions that cost them 4 world series in game 7, when they even made the post season.

The Chigago Cubs haven't won a world series since before even that.

Since 1919, no team with "chicago" "white" or "sox" in the name has won a world series. Rather than the curse being because of the babe ruth sale, it caused it.


That is, of course, if you believe in curses.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
Nope. Guess sometimes actions are stronger than words.

And I don't believe in no curse of the bambino, billy goat, black cat, inherited middle names starting with F, magical foul ball that causes 8 runs to score, etc.

Think about it. If there IS a curse, what's THE biggest sin in baseball? Bigger than betting, or perhaps the reason betting is the sin that it is. Throwing a game.

Now, what's the biggest game thrown in the history of baseball, or more precisely, games?

The 1919 World Series. The offending team? the Chicago White Sox.

After the 1919 season, the boston red sox sold their best player to the new york yankees and made a plethora of inexplicable bad decisions that cost them 4 world series in game 7, when they even made the post season.

The Chigago Cubs haven't won a world series since before even that.

Since 1919, no team with "chicago" "white" or "sox" in the name has won a world series. Rather than the curse being because of the babe ruth sale, it caused it.

That is, of course, if you believe in curses.

Well, if it's not a curse, then what exactly is it? It's gotta be something then, right? But what?

In all my lookings deep into my crystal ball, I failed to predict that a weak-hitting Yankee would go yard into LF. Had I done that and bet this, I could've gotten a few more weeks on that bet.

I'm not too sure what throwing games has to do with a curse. Were the White Sox cursed by "Shoeless" Joe Jackson or by the Black Sox scandal?

Inherited middle names beginning with "F"? Like who, for example?

I won't say that the foul ball caused those 8 runs to score. However, if an offensive onslaught is rising above the dam like a great tidal wave, I think that nipping it in the bud does prevent this. So while the foul ball didn't do anything ba-a-a-a-d (), averting this extra out surely would've. People need to take their attention off that Bartleman dude sometime.

I don't know about '67 or '75 bad WS decisions, but from what I've heard about the '46 WS (when Pesky held the ball too long), Enos Slaughter ran the bases and on an ESPN Classic replay of Curt Gowdy's interview with those folks, Enos said that had Dom DiMaggio been in CF, he wouldn't have run his "Mad Dash", scoring from 1B like he did.

In '86, it wasn't Buckner, Mookie, IMO, nor was it Roger. It was all about Game 6 and Calvin Schirardi's inability to get that 3rd strike which would've won it all. That's gotta be the key to that one.

[Biggerin]

Inherited middle names beginning with "F"? Like who, for example?

bucky dent and aaron boone.

I'm not too sure what throwing games has to do with a curse.

it's said that the red sox' curse came from selling the greatest ball palyer of all time to the yankees. One huge baseball sin that set up a long history of baseball gaffs. However, I'm suggesting that if there is indeed a curse, it makes more sense that baseball players throwing a world series for profit would be more of a major insult to the god of baseball, one worthy of cursing the chicago white sox to a century of loss. Unfortunately, it also may have included the other chicago team and the other "sox" team as well.

however, I don't actually believe in curses. I was just showing it at another angle.

I don't know about '67 or '75 bad WS decisions, but from what I've heard about the '46 WS (when Pesky held the ball too long), Enos Slaughter ran the bases and on an ESPN Classic replay of Curt Gowdy's interview with those folks, Enos said that had Dom DiMaggio been in CF, he wouldn't have run his "Mad Dash", scoring from 1B like he did.

I've actually heard dom say it himself. Before that inning, he had tried to get an extra boost of speed to stretch a double. He said it was the dumbest thing he could have done. If he was in there, no one would have tried that stunt.

In '86, it wasn't Buckner, Mookie, IMO, nor was it Roger. It was all about Game 6 and Calvin Schirardi's inability to get that 3rd strike which would've won it all. That's gotta be the key to that one.

No one is a bigger defender of bill buckner than I am. I already know all this.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
bucky dent and aaron boone.

Oh, *THOSE* inherited names. Doggonit, you'd think I'd have known about this by now.

it's said that the red sox' curse came from selling the greatest ball palyer of all time to the yankees. One huge baseball sin that set up a long history of baseball gaffs. However, I'm suggesting that if there is indeed a curse, it makes more sense that baseball players throwing a world series for profit would be more of a major insult to the god of baseball, one worthy of cursing the chicago white sox to a century of loss. Unfortunately, it also may have included the other chicago team and the other "sox" team as well.

You'd meant to the "god" or "good" of baseball?

If there is indeed a curse, I'm still not so sure how both Chicago teams would be cursed? If the curse extended to both teams of a city, then why Chicago?

In 1914, prior to Ruth's sale, the Boston Braves won the WS. After having moved to Milwaukee, they won the WS in 1957. They'd also won it in Atlanta. Now if the curse extended to a city, then why not the Boston Braves and other cities it had played in?

however, I don't actually believe in curses. I was just showing it at another angle.

No problem with the other angle. Curses can be strange, since you're then talking about all kinds of stuff not remotely discussing baseball. Ruth I can figure on, but a billy goat? It's almost like telling me that a spider cursed your team.

One St Louis poster said that Keith Hernandez cursed his team. He'd played on the '86 Mets and they haven't won since then either. Weird stuff.

I've actually heard dom say it himself. Before that inning, he had tried to get an extra boost of speed to stretch a double. He said it was the dumbest thing he could have done. If he was in there, no one would have tried that stunt.

I was watching something on ESPN Classic during the wee hours. That play happened to be featured. The announcer said that folklore said that Enos scored on a single. He then said it was a double + hit-and-run. Heck, that more explains it, since I've even seen slowpoke Jorge Posada once score from 1B on a double + hit-and-run.

No one is a bigger defender of bill buckner than I am. I already know all this.

I'd loaned that vid out to a friend but never got it back. Still, from various accounts of that one game, plus a thread we'd had about this a few months ago under "History", I still say it's the reliever. Forgive me for preaching to the choir.

[Mattingly]

Originally posted by Biggerin
bucky dent and aaron boone.

Oh, *THOSE* inherited names. Doggonit, you'd think I'd have known about this by now.

it's said that the red sox' curse came from selling the greatest ball palyer of all time to the yankees. One huge baseball sin that set up a long history of baseball gaffs. However, I'm suggesting that if there is indeed a curse, it makes more sense that baseball players throwing a world series for profit would be more of a major insult to the god of baseball, one worthy of cursing the chicago white sox to a century of loss. Unfortunately, it also may have included the other chicago team and the other "sox" team as well.

You'd meant to the "god" or "good" of baseball?

If there is indeed a curse, I'm still not so sure how both Chicago teams would be cursed? If the curse extended to both teams of a city, then why Chicago?

In 1914, prior to Ruth's sale, the Boston Braves won the WS. After having moved to Milwaukee, they won the WS in 1957. They'd also won it in Atlanta. Now if the curse extended to a city, then why not the Boston Braves and other cities it had played in?

however, I don't actually believe in curses. I was just showing it at another angle.

No problem with the other angle. Curses can be strange, since you're then talking about all kinds of stuff not remotely discussing baseball. Ruth I can figure on, but a billy goat? It's almost like telling me that a spider cursed your team.

One St Louis poster said that Keith Hernandez cursed his team. He'd played on the '86 Mets and they haven't won since then either. Weird stuff.

I've actually heard dom say it himself. Before that inning, he had tried to get an extra boost of speed to stretch a double. He said it was the dumbest thing he could have done. If he was in there, no one would have tried that stunt.

I was watching something on ESPN Classic during the wee hours. That play happened to be featured. The announcer said that folklore said that Enos scored on a single. He then said it was a double + hit-and-run. Heck, that more explains it, since I've even seen slowpoke Jorge Posada once score from 1B on a double + hit-and-run.

No one is a bigger defender of bill buckner than I am. I already know all this.

I'd loaned that vid out to a friend but never got it back. Still, from various accounts of that one game, plus a thread we'd had about this a few months ago under "History", I still say it's the reliever. Forgive me for preaching to the choir.

[Biggerin]

pheh!

"chicago" white "sox" threw WS in 1919.

boston red "sox"
"chicago" cubs
"chicago" white "sox"

these teams have not won a world series since. IE, since the chicago white sox threw the WS, no team with "chicago" "white" or "sox" in the name has won a WS.

I wasn't even trying to be serious, lol. quit making me explain it.


and I meant God of baseball, not good of baseball. as in the baseball gods.


(I think the yankee's lack of hitting has affected your noodles )

[KenFougere]

Re: Re: Re: Don't even mention it . . .

Originally posted by KenFougere

Fumigate away, buddy! We took everything we came there for! -

- - - -

[Mattingly]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't even mention it . . .

Originally posted by KenFougere
- - - -

Awwwwwwwwwww, po' weedle Ken, he needs to quote himself ... awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

First the score was 5-zip ... then after a Fatal $ale, it's now ... 26-zippo, buddy boy, zipperooni! How Sweep It Is! Donut, goose eggs, nada, zilch, nuttin' fer Ken & Company!

Hey, Jeter hasn't figured out what that dead wooden weight on his shoulder is yet, but at least we scored 6 in a bat-around to beat Oakland. We'll have to get ourselves together, sneak up on you'se people *WHAM!*, no more Bahstunned!

[CuriousBoston]

? Shouldn't you be....

teaching certain people how to hit?

MR BOS. H=29, .392
AS TEX =27, .342
BM BOS. =20, .270
DO BOS. =20, .278
AR NNY =20, .253

I won't put total bases, or RBI's, that would be too :o for you, Matt. Does Clemens still have more RBI's than Jeter? Clemens 4-0, gee, four wins...

Boston fielding is not great, with Nixon out, but the NNY are last...last.

Not fielding, not hitting, only one reliable starter, only one reliable closer...(Wakefield is a reliable starter AND closer); with WaKefield ALONE, Sox have better pitching. Add Schilling, Lowe, Arroyo, that Pedro guy, & oh, yeah, another guy named Kim, who if he fails completely (which I expect), STILL leaves the Sox with better pitching.

Conteras vs [email protected] Is he going to wear a flack jacket? Rumor has it Yfans are getting a tad impatient.

Somebody named Ted wrote a book about "THE ART OF HITTING". I do believe the man knew a few things about hitting. (I've seen the statue at Gate B in person. Beautiful.)

[Mattingly]

Re: ? Shouldn't you be....

Originally posted by CuriousBoston
teaching certain people how to hit?

MR BOS. H=29, .392
AS TEX =27, .342
BM BOS. =20, .270
DO BOS. =20, .278
AR NNY =20, .253

I won't put total bases, or RBI's, that would be too :o for you, Matt. Does Clemens still have more RBI's than Jeter? Clemens 4-0, gee, four wins...

[snip]

It's actually "NYY", as in "New York Yankees", since "NNY" doesn't mean anything.

It's only April. In May, we'll see how consistent each team's pitching remains. Every season Boston fans crow about their team's fast start, knowing fully well the Yanks are a slow team. How many were still crowing after Boone went BOOM?

I've managed to figure out the others, but who's BM? As to Manny, I seem to remember a few seasons ago (2001), he'd been on fire but trailed off rapidly after June. He was 2nd in BA last season, but his early start doesn't surprise me.

For Sori, he's always had talent, but his BB:K ratio has always left tons to be desired. Yesterday, he'd gotten a hit into RF off the pitcher's glove I understand, and it was straight to the 2B otherwise. I'd long said that this was his breakout year, so his offensive outburst doesn't surprise me.

So far, he's had 5 BB, 12 SO. I doubt he'd ever reverse that ratio, but at least he's on track to get <100 Ks this season. His .391 OBP is good, but for a .342 AVG, I think it could be in the low .400s. His .418 SLG isn't what he's capable of, since he should be at least .500.

I wish him well, just as I wish Clemens and Pettitte well. As to Roger's bat vs Jeter's, I guess you're joking. In the 2001 WS, he'd looked like a bat was a foreign object at the BOB (unlike the prior WS, Game 2). Besides, Jeter's in a funk, has 5 RBI, whereas Rocket has 3 RBI and 5 career. Either '01 or '02, both he and Mike Hampton had 5 HRs early in the season, so I'm not surprised.

It's a work in progress, but while I'll admit your pitching looks good, once our guys settle down, I wouldn't discount Moose, Brown, Vazquez, Contreras, and see what Lieber or El Duque have in the tank. As to the pen, don't forget Mo, Gordon, Quantril, White and we'll see if Osbourne can prove to be reliable.

Not the strongest, but still more than enough to beat Boston in September and October, if we meet up in the ALCS!

About Ted's book, I remember he'd gone fishing with Boggs and my namesake, since they were both big fans of his. I think that Giambi had also read his book, complimented Teddy on this when he was still with us. You'll never hear a bad word about #9 from, I'll guarantee you!

[CuriousBoston]

Bill Mueller

Did not mean to spell NYY wrong, sorry. Do think that your namesake should insist team read "The Art of Hitting". At one point recently, I believe Clemens did have more RBI'S than Jeter. I just hope that NYY hitting, & Sox pitching continue in May, as in April.

I cannot understand your faith in Conteras. I have no faith in Kim, & hope he gets one chance, & only one, I don't care how much he is being paid.

Tonight, Conteras for you, Schilling for us
NYY= 12.34% of season played.
SOX= 11.11%