The Bitter Rivals Thread

[BoSox Rule]

2 things to note:

1. Clemens isn't the only pitcher that we have. We have Roy O, and despite what some small-minded people think here, we have Brandon Backe. He's a gamer, and he's VERY hot.

2. Clemens knows those teams as well. As for that comment, I'd simply reply with one word - "likewise."

(Oh yeah, we've got 4 big killer B's on a rampage. I'd watch out for that!)

Other than the Tigers, Roger Clemens is least successfull against the Red Sox. (vs. teams he has at least 100 IP againts.)

Ortiz, Manny, Damon, Millar, Varitek> Killer B's

[nolanryan5714]

Other than the Tigers, Roger Clemens is least successfull against the Red Sox. (vs. teams he has at least 100 IP againts.)

I'm not trying to jinx my team here, but this entire season has been about defying the odds...and I wouldn't bet against them individually nor collectively now!

Ortiz, Manny, Damon, Millar, Varitek> Killer B's

Bring it, I say...we'll only know once we get there.

As I said above, what a series it will be. The two hottest teams in baseball after August 15 in the WS.

It'll be incredible.

[MetsFan11368]

Hey...isn't that Curt Shelling?

[nolanryan5714]

Hey...isn't that Curt Shelling?

I'm not quite sure either.

[Mattingly]

From what I understand, Curt Schilling, who posts on both a Red Sox board and a Yankee board under the moniker "Gehrig38", committed the most cardinal of baseball pitching sins: he talked smack about the other team.

I remember that either David Cone or Doc Gooden did this some 10 or 14 years ago when the Mets were in some playoffs and one had an "as told by [player]" column for the NY Daily News, in which he'd seemingly belitted his opponents. The column was immediately pulled the next day, per the pitcher getting lit up.

I have no idea what kind of reaction he'd expected, but here's the thing: I've heard that he'd started some Game Thread on SoSH, a Red Sox board, as he'd reportedly done in the ALDS. Between this and calling out Yankee fans like this, it's like how John Rocker had shouted down to Mets fans, "I've just struck out your best hitter", with regards to fanning Piazza to end the inning.

Instead of toadying up to the crowd wishing to hear lots of player bravado, why don't people just look to get what the real prize should be? You know what that would be? *WINNING*, that's what it should be. Isn't that what this is all about? Or are people more enamored w/the "extras" re making your opponent look silly, than anything else?

Instead of showing up teams or fans of those teams, had he just played a good game, he wouldn't have had a statement to be plastered to the walls of the lockerroom. Mike Mussina's pre-game radio statements were that he'd do his best to keep the game close, and that with a pitcher of Schilling's capabilities, that's the best he could do. Coming from our ace, I'd say that's a great statement.

Had Curt wanted to quiet the Yankee crowd, all he had to do was what I and many other Yankee fans had fully expected from him: 7 innings of 1- or 2-run ball. That would surely have taken the home crowd out of the game! If you look at the Boston 7th and 8th innings, that would've won the game easily. It's only because of our big early lead, plus some clutch hitting by Bernie and Mo's stellar pitching, did we survive. Subtract 6 of the 8 runs the Yanks scored in the first 7 innings, and instead of being up 10-7, we're down 7-4 and Foulke works the bottom of the 9th. Not a pleasant possibility.

I have no problem with a player pleasing his fans. However, doing this to excess, as if to purposely embarrass a team's ever-faithful fans, isn't anything I'd consider good karma. Had Moose ever said this about the Boston crowd, I'd be unmercifully upset with him, especially if that put the game at risk, seeing how players would want to defend their fans' honor.

I only wish that Curt and the other ALCS pitchers can zip it this week. The cat's already out of the bag and is harder to put back in, once out. Let's just have a great series, preferably one w/o unnecessary players stroking fan or fan site bravado!

BTW, one more thing, Curt: there's no such thing as 55,000 New Yorkers at a Yankee-Red Sox game. About 10,000 of them are Red Sox fans, and many of the Yankee fans don't even live in New York.

[BoSox Rule]

He was joking around.

CURT SCHILLING: In 1993 we went to Atlanta and I can remember, I was pitching the next day and I was talking to Terry Mulholland, and he said the awesome thing about being a starting pitching is you have the ability to make 55,000 people shut up when you're on the road. I'm not sure I can think of any scenario more enjoyable than making 55,000 people from New York shut up. (Laughter.) But that's a challenge in this ballpark. The adrenaline, they are going to bring the adrenaline to this park, there's no question.

[Mattingly]

He was joking around.

CURT SCHILLING: In 1993 we went to Atlanta and I can remember, I was pitching the next day and I was talking to Terry Mulholland, and he said the awesome thing about being a starting pitching is you have the ability to make 55,000 people shut up when you're on the road. I'm not sure I can think of any scenario more enjoyable than making 55,000 people from New York shut up. (Laughter.) But that's a challenge in this ballpark. The adrenaline, they are going to bring the adrenaline to this park, there's no question.

Not something you'd like to joke around with in the ALCS against your toughest opponent.

He was brought in to take down the Yankees. He'd kept the Yanks to 2 runs over about 7 innings in Game 7 of the 2001 WS, a game won by Randy Johnson. That's what he's there to do. Why would he jeapordize this possibility by firing up a team?

About 3 seasons ago, some rookie from Oakland, I believe, said about the Yankees, "They've had a great run". Jeter took offense to that, since the Yanks were playing poorly, had lost 2 straight, and that fired them up to win 3 to take the series. Reason? Because "They've *HAD* a great run" indicates that it would be over starting now. Surely disrespect coming from a young kid.

Moral of the story: You *NEVER* give your opponents anything to fire them up. It's like saying, "I've owned Ortiz, and I'll get him to ground into a double play if the game's on the line." What's to stop Ortiz from then smacking one into the next state? Joking or no joking, certain thing are simply never done. That this is the specific opponent he was brought on to take down, but he makes a mental error like this, I can't consider a joke. I'd consider it a lapse in judgment. That is simply *NEVER* done, in my book. *NEVER EVER EVER!*

[SoxSon]

Mattingly--
I'm sure Yankees players were hyped up to win, but clearly, the results last night were due to his torn right tendon. I'm sure you don't believe that they just "got to him," do you? I'd be surprised.
I agree with you about the comments...I wish everyone, players and fans, would just relax a little. That being said, here goes:

About the "who's your daddy?" line, which has certainly seen a lot of ink: It's known as self- deprecation, and I feel pretty sure that Pedro is having a good laugh at everyone taking it seriously. I'm not saying he hasn't struggled, but I think (and this is me showing a little team bias here)...I think that one of NY's biggest issues with Pedro (and he's really the only one who gets that spotlight) is that he generally demonstrates a conceit and sense of entitlement that NY feels is its own. That's why, I think, NY has gotten SO overly excited about his recent self-deprecation. It's just talk, guys...when I make a self-deprecating joke to my students in class, there's always a couple students who think I just "dissed" myself. I usually feel sad about those two.

Ok, just getting my say, that's all.

[JohnnysGhost]

The Defining Moment

Well from my corner of the Baseball Universe,It really boils down To Pedro Martinez and how well/or bad he does Tonite.This should be great baseball theatre and I hope everyone can sit back and enjoy it,whatever the results may turn out to be. :radio

[Mattingly]

Mattingly--
I'm sure Yankees players were hyped up to win, but clearly, the results last night were due to his torn right tendon. I'm sure you don't believe that they just "got to him," do you? I'd be surprised.
I agree with you about the comments...I wish everyone, players and fans, would just relax a little. That being said, here goes:

I'm not sure which was *THE* factor in him giving up 6 runs in only 3 innings. Normally, I'd expect 6 runs over 2-3 *GAMES*, not innings. This is coming from a Yankee fan who, as I'd mentioned earlier, fully expected him to do 7 IP, 2 ER. Not *EXACTLY* Santana, but surely to bridge the gap to within 1 inning of Foulke.

For "getting to him", based purely on baseball, no. I do believe that his statement was a big part. Like I've emphatically said, you never ever do that kind of thing. As also mentioned, Moose had said he could only keep the game close, per Schilling's usually stellar starts. Based purely on his start in that Sunday game at Fenway, he certainly lived up to his billing as a Yankee-killer, which I'd expected. Therefore, I'd say that between his statement and the ankle (right or left?), that contributed to Tuesday's results.

About the "who's your daddy?" line, which has certainly seen a lot of ink: It's known as self- deprecation, and I feel pretty sure that Pedro is having a good laugh at everyone taking it seriously.

That line came like self-deprecation to him, but many of us considered it quite serious. I figured he'd just thrown his hands up in the air. Don't get me wrong, the Yanks had tried their best, but I think that Minaya wasn't enamored w/the Yanks, so Pedro went their way. Still, for a guy of his capabilities, I wouldn't have expected this. Something like, "Yeah, they got me" was what I'd expected.

I'm not saying he hasn't struggled, but I think (and this is me showing a little team bias here)...I think that one of NY's biggest issues with Pedro (and he's really the only one who gets that spotlight) is that he generally demonstrates a conceit and sense of entitlement that NY feels is its own. That's why, I think, NY has gotten SO overly excited about his recent self-deprecation. It's just talk, guys...when I make a self-deprecating joke to my students in class, there's always a couple students who think I just "dissed" myself. I usually feel sad about those two.

Actually, I don't want any pitchers in NY or anywhere else that display too much conceit. If anything, that "Daddy" comment seemed to suggest not just humility, but a sense of defeat. What is a team's co-ace saying stuff like that? A few years ago, Randy Johnson couldn't beat the Mets, but I never heard him say they were his "Daddy". I don't think it's a matter of conceit, which AFAIK, is a right he's earned. It's a matter of almost giving up, like saying you've been defeated.

As to self-deprecating jokes, I remember Robin Ventura was great with this, with his great sense of humor. Pedro's a very intelligent person, but perhaps he and I aren't on the same wavelength re humor. Perhaps someone else gets it, or enjoy it, but I thought that was a little odd.

Ok, just getting my say, that's all.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, no more noise from the Beantown Peanut Gallery! *BONK!* :gt

[bigtime39]

Especially with the Yankee-hating O's fans wishing their boys were in there instead, right?

My boy's aren't ready to be there...yet (and my damned html and smiles aren't working, either)!

[KenFougere]

Give me a break, will ya . . .

I'm not sure which was *THE* factor in him giving up 6 runs in only 3 innings. Normally, I'd expect 6 runs over 2-3 *GAMES*, not innings. This is coming from a Yankee fan who, as I'd mentioned earlier, fully expected him to do 7 IP, 2 ER. Not *EXACTLY* Santana, but surely to bridge the gap to within 1 inning of Foulke.

For "getting to him", based purely on baseball, no. I do believe that his statement was a big part. Like I've emphatically said, you never ever do that kind of thing. As also mentioned, Moose had said he could only keep the game close, per Schilling's usually stellar starts. Based purely on his start in that Sunday game at Fenway, he certainly lived up to his billing as a Yankee-killer, which I'd expected. Therefore, I'd say that between his statement and the ankle (right or left?), that contributed to Tuesday's results

You can't be serious. His fastball was 88mph when it's usually 94-96!
In your opinion, was it his 'statement' or his injury? :noidea

{take your time . . . talk amongst' yourselves . . . } -

[Mattingly]

You can't be serious. His fastball was 88mph when it's usually 94-96!
In your opinion, was it his 'statement' or his injury? :noidea

{take your time . . . talk amongst' yourselves . . . } -

Did I not say it was a combination of both? I never gave more weight to one rather than the other.

I'll give you that it likely was his right ankle tendon, but since ERA is a combo of pitching, defense and offense, I'd say that firing up a team would tend to add fuel to the fire.

Oh, BTW, did Pedro smack his Daddies around? I haven't watched the game tonight.

[Mattingly]

My boy's aren't ready to be there...yet (and my damned html and smiles aren't working, either)!

The html works fine here. Just add the codes where it says "More" on your right.

As to your boys, heck, hope you know I was just kidding ya. Not right now, but likely next season, they'll be in the thick of things. Rook manager, but like we'd discussed in the O's forum, 2005 may be a better thing.

Hey, like I said several times this year, it's played on the field. I'm glad the Yanks hung on f/tonight's game, especially how dangerous Boston's offense can be late in the game. Torre definitely had to take chances here, especially w/Lieber asking f/the ball to lead off the 8th, allowing a hit. He took him out, Gordon got 2 outs but Mo had to come in f/the second consecutive 4-out save.

Against a team Mo hasn't been overly effective against in the past, when added to his family's recent deaths, I have no idea how the man has summoned it within him to do what he's done. He's got a heart of stone and ice in his veins.

Best of luck to you folks in 2005 and beyond, OK, buddy?

[Mattingly]

Tonight's (Fri, 10/15) game is postponed due to rain. Likely a double-header on Sunday sometime, given that TV scheduling can be rearranged.