The Bitter Rivals Thread

[Mattingly]

He was joking around.

CURT SCHILLING: In 1993 we went to Atlanta and I can remember, I was pitching the next day and I was talking to Terry Mulholland, and he said the awesome thing about being a starting pitching is you have the ability to make 55,000 people shut up when you're on the road. I'm not sure I can think of any scenario more enjoyable than making 55,000 people from New York shut up. (Laughter.) But that's a challenge in this ballpark. The adrenaline, they are going to bring the adrenaline to this park, there's no question.

Not something you'd like to joke around with in the ALCS against your toughest opponent.

He was brought in to take down the Yankees. He'd kept the Yanks to 2 runs over about 7 innings in Game 7 of the 2001 WS, a game won by Randy Johnson. That's what he's there to do. Why would he jeapordize this possibility by firing up a team?

About 3 seasons ago, some rookie from Oakland, I believe, said about the Yankees, "They've had a great run". Jeter took offense to that, since the Yanks were playing poorly, had lost 2 straight, and that fired them up to win 3 to take the series. Reason? Because "They've *HAD* a great run" indicates that it would be over starting now. Surely disrespect coming from a young kid.

Moral of the story: You *NEVER* give your opponents anything to fire them up. It's like saying, "I've owned Ortiz, and I'll get him to ground into a double play if the game's on the line." What's to stop Ortiz from then smacking one into the next state? Joking or no joking, certain thing are simply never done. That this is the specific opponent he was brought on to take down, but he makes a mental error like this, I can't consider a joke. I'd consider it a lapse in judgment. That is simply *NEVER* done, in my book. *NEVER EVER EVER!*

[bigtime39]

I think the real moral of this story is "don't exude confidence when you're about to pitch against a bunch of all-star mercinaries and you've got an effin TORN TENDON IN YOUR ANKLE!" Yeesh!

[SoxSon]

Mattingly--
I'm sure Yankees players were hyped up to win, but clearly, the results last night were due to his torn right tendon. I'm sure you don't believe that they just "got to him," do you? I'd be surprised.
I agree with you about the comments...I wish everyone, players and fans, would just relax a little. That being said, here goes:

About the "who's your daddy?" line, which has certainly seen a lot of ink: It's known as self- deprecation, and I feel pretty sure that Pedro is having a good laugh at everyone taking it seriously. I'm not saying he hasn't struggled, but I think (and this is me showing a little team bias here)...I think that one of NY's biggest issues with Pedro (and he's really the only one who gets that spotlight) is that he generally demonstrates a conceit and sense of entitlement that NY feels is its own. That's why, I think, NY has gotten SO overly excited about his recent self-deprecation. It's just talk, guys...when I make a self-deprecating joke to my students in class, there's always a couple students who think I just "dissed" myself. I usually feel sad about those two.

Ok, just getting my say, that's all.

[JohnnysGhost]

The Defining Moment

Well from my corner of the Baseball Universe,It really boils down To Pedro Martinez and how well/or bad he does Tonite.This should be great baseball theatre and I hope everyone can sit back and enjoy it,whatever the results may turn out to be. :radio

[Mattingly]

Mattingly--
I'm sure Yankees players were hyped up to win, but clearly, the results last night were due to his torn right tendon. I'm sure you don't believe that they just "got to him," do you? I'd be surprised.
I agree with you about the comments...I wish everyone, players and fans, would just relax a little. That being said, here goes:

I'm not sure which was *THE* factor in him giving up 6 runs in only 3 innings. Normally, I'd expect 6 runs over 2-3 *GAMES*, not innings. This is coming from a Yankee fan who, as I'd mentioned earlier, fully expected him to do 7 IP, 2 ER. Not *EXACTLY* Santana, but surely to bridge the gap to within 1 inning of Foulke.

For "getting to him", based purely on baseball, no. I do believe that his statement was a big part. Like I've emphatically said, you never ever do that kind of thing. As also mentioned, Moose had said he could only keep the game close, per Schilling's usually stellar starts. Based purely on his start in that Sunday game at Fenway, he certainly lived up to his billing as a Yankee-killer, which I'd expected. Therefore, I'd say that between his statement and the ankle (right or left?), that contributed to Tuesday's results.

About the "who's your daddy?" line, which has certainly seen a lot of ink: It's known as self- deprecation, and I feel pretty sure that Pedro is having a good laugh at everyone taking it seriously.

That line came like self-deprecation to him, but many of us considered it quite serious. I figured he'd just thrown his hands up in the air. Don't get me wrong, the Yanks had tried their best, but I think that Minaya wasn't enamored w/the Yanks, so Pedro went their way. Still, for a guy of his capabilities, I wouldn't have expected this. Something like, "Yeah, they got me" was what I'd expected.

I'm not saying he hasn't struggled, but I think (and this is me showing a little team bias here)...I think that one of NY's biggest issues with Pedro (and he's really the only one who gets that spotlight) is that he generally demonstrates a conceit and sense of entitlement that NY feels is its own. That's why, I think, NY has gotten SO overly excited about his recent self-deprecation. It's just talk, guys...when I make a self-deprecating joke to my students in class, there's always a couple students who think I just "dissed" myself. I usually feel sad about those two.

Actually, I don't want any pitchers in NY or anywhere else that display too much conceit. If anything, that "Daddy" comment seemed to suggest not just humility, but a sense of defeat. What is a team's co-ace saying stuff like that? A few years ago, Randy Johnson couldn't beat the Mets, but I never heard him say they were his "Daddy". I don't think it's a matter of conceit, which AFAIK, is a right he's earned. It's a matter of almost giving up, like saying you've been defeated.

As to self-deprecating jokes, I remember Robin Ventura was great with this, with his great sense of humor. Pedro's a very intelligent person, but perhaps he and I aren't on the same wavelength re humor. Perhaps someone else gets it, or enjoy it, but I thought that was a little odd.

Ok, just getting my say, that's all.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, no more noise from the Beantown Peanut Gallery! *BONK!* :gt

[Mattingly]

I think the real moral of this story is "don't exude confidence when you're about to pitch against a bunch of all-star mercinaries and you've got an effin TORN TENDON IN YOUR ANKLE!" Yeesh!

Especially with the Yankee-hating O's fans wishing their boys were in there instead, right?

[bigtime39]

Especially with the Yankee-hating O's fans wishing their boys were in there instead, right?

My boy's aren't ready to be there...yet (and my damned html and smiles aren't working, either)!

[KenFougere]

Give me a break, will ya . . .

I'm not sure which was *THE* factor in him giving up 6 runs in only 3 innings. Normally, I'd expect 6 runs over 2-3 *GAMES*, not innings. This is coming from a Yankee fan who, as I'd mentioned earlier, fully expected him to do 7 IP, 2 ER. Not *EXACTLY* Santana, but surely to bridge the gap to within 1 inning of Foulke.

For "getting to him", based purely on baseball, no. I do believe that his statement was a big part. Like I've emphatically said, you never ever do that kind of thing. As also mentioned, Moose had said he could only keep the game close, per Schilling's usually stellar starts. Based purely on his start in that Sunday game at Fenway, he certainly lived up to his billing as a Yankee-killer, which I'd expected. Therefore, I'd say that between his statement and the ankle (right or left?), that contributed to Tuesday's results

You can't be serious. His fastball was 88mph when it's usually 94-96!
In your opinion, was it his 'statement' or his injury? :noidea

{take your time . . . talk amongst' yourselves . . . } -

[Mattingly]

You can't be serious. His fastball was 88mph when it's usually 94-96!
In your opinion, was it his 'statement' or his injury? :noidea

{take your time . . . talk amongst' yourselves . . . } -

Did I not say it was a combination of both? I never gave more weight to one rather than the other.

I'll give you that it likely was his right ankle tendon, but since ERA is a combo of pitching, defense and offense, I'd say that firing up a team would tend to add fuel to the fire.

Oh, BTW, did Pedro smack his Daddies around? I haven't watched the game tonight.

[Mattingly]

My boy's aren't ready to be there...yet (and my damned html and smiles aren't working, either)!

The html works fine here. Just add the codes where it says "More" on your right.

As to your boys, heck, hope you know I was just kidding ya. Not right now, but likely next season, they'll be in the thick of things. Rook manager, but like we'd discussed in the O's forum, 2005 may be a better thing.

Hey, like I said several times this year, it's played on the field. I'm glad the Yanks hung on f/tonight's game, especially how dangerous Boston's offense can be late in the game. Torre definitely had to take chances here, especially w/Lieber asking f/the ball to lead off the 8th, allowing a hit. He took him out, Gordon got 2 outs but Mo had to come in f/the second consecutive 4-out save.

Against a team Mo hasn't been overly effective against in the past, when added to his family's recent deaths, I have no idea how the man has summoned it within him to do what he's done. He's got a heart of stone and ice in his veins.

Best of luck to you folks in 2005 and beyond, OK, buddy?

[Mattingly]

Tonight's (Fri, 10/15) game is postponed due to rain. Likely a double-header on Sunday sometime, given that TV scheduling can be rearranged.

[deanchristopher]

Ready to crumble

Letter by letter, they're eating their words, and it's all getting a little hard to swallow for Red Sox Nation. They've been saying all along that this was the year. The Curse was being reversed, and the Evil Empire was falling. Then it started...

An ankle injury rendered Schilling worthless, and game one went to those damn Yankees. Then, without warning, the City went paternal on Pedro on game two. Contrary to the hype, these Red Sox aren't ready to rumble. They are, however, ready to tumble, bumble, stumble, fumble and crumble...like Bryant Gumbel. And like it or not, the Empire isn't...

Boston centerfielder Johnny Damon said it best: the 2004 Red Sox are a "bunch of idiots." True to their name, the idiots went to New York and laid the biggest egg since Ernest went to camp, jail, school Africa, Splash Mountain and Hollywood - in that order. I smell a franchise here. Not a sports franchise, a film franchise, a blockbuster of repeatable proportions. And as the idiots go home to Boston, they can only hope for the same improbable happy ending that always befell Mr. Ernest P. Worrell...

Prior to game one, Curt Schilling felt good about his chances at Yankee Stadium. "The great thing about being a starting pitcher is having the ability to make 55,000 people shut up," Schilling boasted. "I'm not sure if I can think of a better scenario than making 55,000 people shut up." But injury aside, is there anything worse than an uppity ace falling flat on his face in his biggest start of the year?

Indeed, the prognosis doesn't look good for Mr. Schilling. To paraphrase Lieutenant Frank Drebin of the famed Naked Gun franchise, "Doctors say that [he] has a 50/50 chance of [pitching], though there's only a ten percent chance of that." But if Schilling can defy the odds and lift his Sox to an improbable pennant, his legacy as a playoff hero would reach rarely charted territory, the hallowed grounds inhabited by Sport's great clutch performers of the modern era: Magic, Bird and Jordan of the NBA; Gretzky, Messier and Roy of the NHL; Montana, Emmitt and Brady of the NFL; and Gibson, Puckett and Jeter of MLB...

[bigtime39]

The html works fine here. Just add the codes where it says "More" on your right.

As to your boys, heck, hope you know I was just kidding ya. Not right now, but likely next season, they'll be in the thick of things. Rook manager, but like we'd discussed in the O's forum, 2005 may be a better thing.

Hey, like I said several times this year, it's played on the field. I'm glad the Yanks hung on f/tonight's game, especially how dangerous Boston's offense can be late in the game. Torre definitely had to take chances here, especially w/Lieber asking f/the ball to lead off the 8th, allowing a hit. He took him out, Gordon got 2 outs but Mo had to come in f/the second consecutive 4-out save.

Against a team Mo hasn't been overly effective against in the past, when added to his family's recent deaths, I have no idea how the man has summoned it within him to do what he's done. He's got a heart of stone and ice in his veins.

Best of luck to you folks in 2005 and beyond, OK, buddy?

Matt:
Whether or not the O's are ready for prime time in 2K5 rests, to some degree in the checkbook of George III. If the Yank$ win the World Series he may not be on a frantic pitching shopping spree in the off season. If your boys LOSE the WS, or worse, the ALCS, he's gonna buy every available FA pitcher with a pulse and an arm that's still attached, and we'll head into next year with this years staff...not a completely appealing idea, even with Ray Miller to whip 'em into shape!
And I think the smiles and html aren't working for me because I've recently been "service packed!"

[KenFougere]

No double-header . . .

Tonight's (Fri, 10/15) game is postponed due to rain. Likely a double-header on Sunday sometime, given that TV scheduling can be rearranged.

Friday's rainout will be played Monday at {appox} 5:15 . . .

[BoSox Rule]

Friday's rainout will be played Monday at {appox} 5:15 . . .

And if the Cardinals sweep, I think they are moving the game to 8:00