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  • Originally posted by Biggerin
    hehe, you don't wanna go toe-to-toe with me with math



    everyone else is 33% LESS, but by your numbers, the yankees have 50% more

    120 + 50% = 180

    besides, it helps your argument even more.
    I think we're saying the same thing - your looking at the total without the yanks, I'm looking at the total with the yanks, but the points the same.

    Comment


    • team spending

      Originally posted by Biggerin
      actually, to use the actual figures as shown on this site:

      New York Yankees (1): $152,749,814
      New York Mets (2): $117,176,429
      Boston Red Sox (6): $99,946,500
      Tampa Bay Devil Rays (30): $19,600,000

      So the yankees have a 30.4% advantage over the mets, 52.8% advvantage over the red sox and 679.3% advantage over the tampa bay devil rays, in terms of salary.

      However, the mets have a 17.2% advantage over boston, yet they are 16.5 games behind us, so salary doesn't necessarily mean anything.
      Those are pre-adjustment figures. The llatest figures are on the espn site and have the yanks at 180 mil with the next team at 120 mil.

      Comment


      • salary effect

        Originally posted by Biggerin
        actually, to use the actual figures as shown on this site:

        New York Yankees (1): $152,749,814
        New York Mets (2): $117,176,429
        Boston Red Sox (6): $99,946,500
        Tampa Bay Devil Rays (30): $19,600,000

        So the yankees have a 30.4% advantage over the mets, 52.8% advvantage over the red sox and 679.3% advantage over the tampa bay devil rays, in terms of salary.

        However, the mets have a 17.2% advantage over boston, yet they are 16.5 games behind us, so salary doesn't necessarily mean anything.
        by the way, just because the mets had a tough year doesn't mean salary isn't a huge factor in determining likelihood of winning. of course it does, in a huge way, especially when your willing to spend 3-4 times what other teams spend and fill any hole that develops with an all-star - your pretty much guarenteeing success - your buying the championship. I can see it if you were spending the most, say 130-140 mil, but your 50 mil more than that, which is just obsenely unfair.

        Comment


        • The Trades

          Originally posted by KenFougere
          Code:
          [URL=http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bos/news/bos_news_index.jsp][B][I][SIZE=4][COLOR=red]Scott Sauerbeck?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/URL]
          [/B]
          Ken - you didn't know about Scott Sauerbeck? There were alot of stories about the sox interest in him oleading up to the trade (despite Bob Rogers thinking otherwise) He's a top-flight lefty set-up man that the Yankees also coveted, and a great situational lefty against big hitters in pressure situations late in the game. We helped ourselves by getting him and by the Yankees not getting him.
          It's nice to beat them at something for once. Them settling for Old Man Orosco is something the Sox usually wind up doing. The worm is turning !! Now, If we can just get another strong starter, this might actually get very interesting!

          Comment


          • Convenient Rainout

            Originally posted by Biggerin
            yeah, in all seriousness, non-trash talking, things were definately looking in favor of the red sox to pick up a game tonight.

            Well, we'll just have to settle for .5
            Bob Rogers was claiming he thought the Yankees called the game prematurely because they didn't want to face Halladay and said it was a typical Yankee move.
            If that's true then it's a sign we've got them running scared. They also rearranged their rotation for this weekend's series, removing Mussina from his matchup with Pedro. They're obviously becoming concerned with us little guys!

            Comment


            • Before Domination through Money

              The way I see it, NewYork started using Money to dominate the sport around 1920.
              Here is a comparison of the number of Baseball World Championships that had been won between the 2 cities up until then, beginning with the first professional baseball league, formed in 1871:

              World Titles 1871 thru 1920:

              Boston-13

              NewYork-3


              Once there's a salary cap, and everyone is playing on a level playing field once again, and all teams have a fair chance to compete, the rightful, true champions will return to dominance! See, NY was failing miserably before they started using their crutch to fix the competition.

              even now, while paying over 60 million less than you in salaries, we have you scurrying trying to hold us off. It's pretty funny. I like having Sox owners with brains for once, but I don't think you guys are gonna like it. Your sooo use to easily dominating us, and you don't realize how yesterday that is. We will have already surpassed you guys as an organization before you even realize we're a legitimite threat and the status qou is gone. This is going to be delisiously sweet for us long sufferring Sox Fans - no more Haywood Sullivan sending you Sparky Lyle, or Tom Yawkey leaving the team short of pitching - this regime's got intelligence and will run this organization the way it should've been run for the past 85 years!! Are you ready for the new Order? Can you handle the truth?
              Go Sox!!!!

              :gt

              Comment


              • Gosh, YankeeMan, when you get under someone's skin . . .
                Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
                Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
                Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
                Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

                Comment


                • Re: The Trades

                  Originally posted by RedSoxFanAtic
                  Ken - you didn't know about Scott Sauerbeck? There were alot of stories about the sox interest in him leading up to the trade (despite Bob Rogers thinking otherwise) He's a top-flight lefty set-up man that the Yankees also coveted, and a great situational lefty against big hitters in pressure situations late in the game. We helped ourselves by getting him and by the Yankees not getting him.
                  It's nice to beat them at something for once. Them settling for Old Man Orosco is something the Sox usually wind up doing. The worm is turning !! Now, If we can just get another strong starter, this might actually get very interesting!
                  No, I didn't see that one coming at all. I just felt a little disappointed. I was expecting a top notch starter. Since then, I've heard nothing but good reports on the guy and there's still plenty of time to acquire what we need. I look for Embrey to be moved, but we'll see...
                  Ken Fougère

                  Comment


                  • Boston - New York . . . Bitter to the end!

                    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
                    Gosh, YankeeMan, when you get under someone's skin . . .
                    Code:
                    [B][I][SIZE=3][COLOR=red]Boy, did I get the title for this thread right, or what?... :laugh [/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B]
                    KenFougere
                    Sr Member BB-Almanac 1998
                    Last edited by KenFougere; 07-23-2003, 09:34 AM.
                    Ken Fougère

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Biggerin
                      actually, to use the actual figures as shown on this site:

                      New York Yankees (1): $152,749,814
                      New York Mets (2): $117,176,429
                      Boston Red Sox (6): $99,946,500
                      Tampa Bay Devil Rays (30): $19,600,000

                      So the yankees have a 30.4% advantage over the mets, 52.8% advvantage over the red sox and 679.3% advantage over the tampa bay devil rays, in terms of salary.

                      However, the mets have a 17.2% advantage over boston, yet they are 16.5 games behind us, so salary doesn't necessarily mean anything.
                      I respect the source, but I'm not sure how accurate that figure would be. If you click on the "New York Yankees" from that link, it shows Mondesi as making $13m. I remember he's making $7m from the Yanks, but the other $6m comes from Toronto and the Dodgers.

                      I don't know if the lux tax comes from the opening day payroll or the eventual payroll after the season ends, when all trades, money sent and brought in are finalized and accounted for.

                      Any figures from Boston's payroll you find questionable from your link?
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                      Comment


                      • Re: Before Domination through Money

                        Originally posted by RedSoxFanAtic
                        The way I see it, NewYork started using Money to dominate the sport around 1920.
                        Here is a comparison of the number of Baseball World Championships that had been won between the 2 cities up until then, beginning with the first professional baseball league, formed in 1871:

                        World Titles 1871 thru 1920:

                        Boston-13

                        NewYork-3


                        Once there's a salary cap, and everyone is playing on a level playing field once again, and all teams have a fair chance to compete, the rightful, true champions will return to dominance! See, NY was failing miserably before they started using their crutch to fix the competition.

                        even now, while paying over 60 million less than you in salaries, we have you scurrying trying to hold us off. It's pretty funny. I like having Sox owners with brains for once, but I don't think you guys are gonna like it. Your sooo use to easily dominating us, and you don't realize how yesterday that is. We will have already surpassed you guys as an organization before you even realize we're a legitimite threat and the status qou is gone. This is going to be delisiously sweet for us long sufferring Sox Fans - no more Haywood Sullivan sending you Sparky Lyle, or Tom Yawkey leaving the team short of pitching - this regime's got intelligence and will run this organization the way it should've been run for the past 85 years!! Are you ready for the new Order? Can you handle the truth?
                        Go Sox!!!!

                        :gt
                        I'm curious, by money in 1920, were you referring exclusively to the Ruth purchase, or were you referring to overall payroll of both teams?

                        I'm also wondering where you'd gotten the 13 wins by Boston from 1871-1920. I don't have that far back, but from 1884-1920, I have 7 wins by Boston and 3 by the NY Giants.

                        As to the greater overall payroll of the Yanks, I'm still not sure which source to believe, but on this one, I'm not overly trusting of ESPN, which doesn't seem overly pro-Yankee. Either case, I think that George was just stocking up for next season's big change, when the following aren't expected to be here, followed by their approximate 2003 salary in parenthesis:

                        Roger Clemens ($10m)
                        Sterling Hitchcock ($6m)
                        Raul Mondesi ($7m)
                        Robin Ventura ($5m)
                        Todd Zeile ($1.5m)

                        Others uncertain to return but still possible are:

                        Andy Pettitte ($11.5m)
                        David Wells ($3m)
                        Jeff Weaver ($4m)

                        I don't know which trades will be made before August and this winter, but I don't expect the Yankee payroll to be as high next season.
                        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                        Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                        THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                        Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                        Comment


                        • RSFA, it's a pain in the butt to quote ya when you make 15 posts in a row, lol :P

                          Anyway..

                          Bob Rogers was claiming he thought the Yankees called the game prematurely because they didn't want to face Halladay and said it was a typical Yankee move.
                          heh, I'm fairly sure he was sorta joking. From what I had heard, it was raining pretty hard out there, they just got lucky. (And don't tell me yesterday's matchups didn't heavily favor the sox, yankee fans)

                          by the way, just because the mets had a tough year doesn't mean salary isn't a huge factor in determining likelihood of winning
                          oh, it definitely has an impact. But it's not necessarily going to win you anything. You have to spend the money right, which the mets didn't do and the sox and the yankees did. Keep in mind, too, last year, out of the tight AL west teams, the one with the lowest payroll won the world series. In fact, they went in opposite order of salary if I remember correctly.

                          Those are pre-adjustment figures. The llatest figures are on the espn site and have the yanks at 180 mil with the next team at 120 mil.
                          yeah, I knew my numbers were from the beginning of the season and don't take into account trades or taking on salary or anything. I'll try to find the new one.


                          I think we're saying the same thing - your looking at the total without the yanks, I'm looking at the total with the yanks, but the points the same.
                          essentially, yeah, we're saying the same thing, I was just nitpicking about the math. Yes, 60 is 33% of 180, but the point you were conveying was how much larger a salary the yankees had over the next highest team. In that case, it would be 50% higher. But yeah, we all got the point.

                          Basicly, what I'm saying is, if you were taking a test for a math class and they asked you what percent higher are the yankees over the next highest, your answer would have been marked wrong. Yes, I'm nitpicking, math brings that out in me (I'm such a dork. )
                          "Endlessly deferred redemption provides, paradoxically enough, its own kind of reward... It tests our faith and marks us as spiritually stronger than other fans for whom entrance into heaven is a far cheaper thing."
                          -Scott Stossel

                          Comment


                          • Re: Convenient Rainout

                            Originally posted by RedSoxFanAtic
                            Bob Rogers was claiming he thought the Yankees called the game prematurely because they didn't want to face Halladay and said it was a typical Yankee move.
                            If that's true then it's a sign we've got them running scared. They also rearranged their rotation for this weekend's series, removing Mussina from his matchup with Pedro. They're obviously becoming concerned with us little guys!
                            I think I've heard this from Boston fans before. I think you may need to check with some of the local news sites or someone living here, since it was *pouring* down here, and I mean *hard*.

                            For a rainout, doesn't everyone get pushed back a day? I think that this would mean all the pitchers. Ideally, I'd prefer Moose, Pettitte and perhaps Boomer, but until Little or Torre say otherwise, I have the following matchups:

                            Fri, 7/25: Mussina v Martinez
                            Sat, 7/26: Weaver v Burkett
                            Sun, 7/27: Pettitte v Lowe
                            Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                            Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                            THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                            Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                            Comment


                            • Re: team spending

                              Originally posted by RedSoxFanAtic
                              Those are pre-adjustment figures. The llatest figures are on the espn site and have the yanks at 180 mil with the next team at 120 mil.
                              Where on ESPN.com is this? I only have one thing for salaries from them, and it shows the following top 3 payrolls:

                              Code:
                              1. NY Yankees  156,948,495 
                              2. Los Angeles 115,764,287 
                              3. Boston      100,651,177
                              http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=nyy

                              Even that seems a bit high, since the Yanks aren't responsible for the full salaries shown for neither Raul Mondesi nor Armando Benitez.
                              Mattingly
                              Yankee fan & proud of it!
                              Last edited by Mattingly; 07-23-2003, 10:43 AM.
                              Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                              Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                              THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                              Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                              Comment


                              • Any figures from Boston's payroll you find questionable from your link?
                                only that the payroll is pre-season and doesn't include the money sitting there waiting for us to pick up a $20 mil player before the deadline. I would imagine by now it'd be well over 100mil (though it didn't have far to go).


                                As for the totals, I'm not sure it necessarily means that the yankees management has to be paying exatly that much, but the players on the team are getting that much, so even if half a guy's salary is being payed by another team, you still have $152mil worth of players.


                                Again though, it's all in how the money is spent, and really anything over $100mil should definitly be enough for contention.

                                By spending effectivley, I mean paying enough to keep the superstars (nomar, 11 mil, pedro 15mil, manny 20 mil) and being able to fine players off the scrap heap for next to nothing.

                                brandon lyon, who was just traded for a damn good lefty specialist, was released by the blue jays and was signed to a $309,500 deal. He was a rock in the beginning of the season when the rest of the bullpen was sucking.

                                Then we got damian jackson for $625,000. He comes in to pinch run and he's nearly garanteed second base within a few pitches. (with one exception vs the yanks where he got picked off by rivera to end the 8th ><)

                                Then there's Kevin Millar. Only making $2 mil (which in baseball terms isn't a whole hell of a lot). Before the season, he was a nobody. Now's he's a borderline all-star, he's been clutch, pretty decent at first base, and the biggest presense in the clubhouse. He keeps the rest of the team loose and helps make the team gel together. IMO, he's one of the main reasons the sox offence is doing so good.

                                And the biggest one is little Billy mueller. Getting $2.1 mil, playing like he should be getting $15 mil. He's second in doubles in the league, 3rd in batting average, sees like 15 pitches per plate appearance, has 10 homers, a few tripples, bunch of ribbies, and to top it off, he's a gold glove candidate.

                                Whereas the yankees are actually PAYING weaver, so that's already bad
                                "Endlessly deferred redemption provides, paradoxically enough, its own kind of reward... It tests our faith and marks us as spiritually stronger than other fans for whom entrance into heaven is a far cheaper thing."
                                -Scott Stossel

                                Comment

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