The Bitter Rivals Thread

[Williamsburg2599]

You mean that anything before divisions and wildcards don't count?

What I'm saying is that's how many games back from the best record in the AL they were.

[Erik Bedard]

You know, I really hate when Red Sox bring up money, they're the second (of course) richest team in the league!

Also Evan, we have three chokes. 1960, 2001, and 2004 (I may be forgetting some so feel free to chip in) The Red Sox, off the top of my head have 1946, 1949, 1978, 1986, 2001, and 2003.

For it to be a "choke", then a team must have a decent-sized lead or be about to win it all and then lose. So let's see....

Yankees:

2001
2004 (should count double)
1904 (JACK CHESBRO)

Red Sox:

1986
1978

[SDL]

You mean that anything before divisions and wildcards don't count?

How did these 1986 Red Sox do

Better than the Yankees did, that is for sure...

[Williamsburg2599]

A little light reading....

[Solair Wright]

Can we see the 1990 AL East for a second?

BostonRS BOS 88 74 .543 --
Toronto TOR 86 76 .531 2.0
Detroit DET 79 83 .488 9.0
Clvlnd CLE 77 85 .475 11.0
Bltmore BAL 76 85 .472 11.5
Milwkee MIL 74 88 .457 14.0
NewYorkY NYY 67 95 .414 21.0

Who did better? The Sox did of course.

[Williamsburg2599]

Can we see the 1990 AL East for a second?

BostonRS BOS 88 74 .543 --
Toronto TOR 86 76 .531 2.0
Detroit DET 79 83 .488 9.0
Clvlnd CLE 77 85 .475 11.0
Bltmore BAL 76 85 .472 11.5
Milwkee MIL 74 88 .457 14.0
NewYorkY NYY 67 95 .414 21.0

Who did better? The Sox did of course.

Of course, but that is RECENT history, and Yankee fans don't like to talk about that.

[Murderer's Row]

Of course, but that is RECENT history, and Yankee fans don't like to talk about that.

The Red Sox finished last in 1992 which is more recent. Also, the Red Sox finished third this year and the Yankees swept them in five games at Fenway! That is recent history!

[Williamsburg2599]

The Red Sox finished last in 1992 which is more recent. Also, the Red Sox finished third this year and the Yankees swept them in five games at Fenway! That is recent history!

So is this:

[SDL]

Another Yankee fan's nightmare

For some reason, they shudder at this...

[Mattingly]

*reminds self to remove those ugly pix of Beantowners recently posted by that 2599 kid*

I hear that the Cards are dedicating a new piece of artwork to Carlos Beltran:



Anyway, at least he looks pretty in pictures:

[KenFougere]

Witness if you will a team: The Boston Red Sox won five of the first fifteen World Series and yet they didn't win another for eighty-six years! Again and again and again they choked! And again and again and again and again and again and again!

Also, I was wondering, if 2001-2006 are all chokes, what do you consider '67 and '75?

I can't figure your criteria on what constitutes a 'choke'?
In 1967, the Red Sox odds were 100-1 to win the pennant. It took Yaz's 7 for 8 in the final two games of the season to beat out 3 other teams. To this day, 1967 is regarded as the Impossible Dream year. Going from last to first in 1 year. And they took Bob Gibson and his Cardinals to 7 games. . . .
In 1975, which is arguably one of the most exiting World Series in baseball history, we took the 'Big Red Machine' to 7 games also . . .

[Murderer's Row]

I can't figure your criteria on what constitutes a 'choke'?
In 1967, the Red Sox odds were 100-1 to win the pennant. It took Yaz's 7 for 8 in the final two games of the season to beat out 3 other teams. To this day, 1967 is regarded as the Impossible Dream year. Going from last to first in 1 year. And they took Bob Gibson and his Cardinals to 7 games. . . .
In 1975, which is arguably one of the most exiting World Series in baseball history, we took the 'Big Red Machine' to 7 games also . . .

I don't believe that every year from 2001-2006 was a choke. Losing in the postseason is not the same as choking. I don't believe 1967 or 1975 are chokes but because Red Sox fans seem to think that every year 01-06 was a choke, I mentioned them.

[KenFougere]

I don't believe that every year from 2001-2006 was a choke. Losing in the postseason is not the same as choking. I don't believe 1967 or 1975 are chokes but because (some) Red Sox fans seem to think that every year 01-06 was a choke, I mentioned them.

I agree with you 100%. Losing in the postseason does not mean you choked.
But, how you lose, sometimes does . . .

[Mattingly]

I agree with you 100%. Losing in the postseason does not mean you choked.
But, how you lose, sometimes does . . .

1946--Lost Game 7 of WS
1948--Lost 1-game playoff
1967--Lost Game 7 of WS
1978--Lost 1-game playoff
1986--Lost Game 6 in dramatic fashion; lost Game 7 of WS
2006--3rd place team

Now then, if that's not choking, I don't know what is. You're going to compare a *SINGLE* ALCS to losing a trio of WS games, all in Game 7? *AND* a pair of 1-game playoffs? In both 1-game playoffs, the victor went on to win the WS.

Admit it, Ken, Beantown choked on multiple occasions, and in more important games.

In 1986, you folks were *ONE STRIKE* away from winning the WS on several batters. *ONE SINGLE STRIKE* is all it took. Couldn't do it.

If that's not choking, I don't know what is. Of course, if you folks' memory refuses to acknowledge that, I guess it'll be forgotten, just like all the other countless and endless losing years for Beantown.

[Solair Wright]

The Bronx Bombers lost four in a row in the 2004 ALCS, and that's as worse of a choke in my opinion. May I show what happened when the Yankees were SUPPOSED to sweep the Red Sox?



David Ortíz showed the Yankees who's boss in dramatic fashion. I don't care but losing four games in a row, after getting the first three wins in a series, is a dramatic choke in my opinion.

Edit: I know that's from the 2004 Division Series, but it's a point that the Yankees collapsed in unbelivable fashion.